- Sep 10, 2017
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I could maybe see a fun little side-attraction for Mario? Like a section in the gift shop, or a regular puppet show based on the 2007 one?
Universal's Epic Universe Wish List & Speculation
- Thread starter Brian G.
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- Jul 13, 2018
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As long as more Nintendo besides Mario comes within the decade, then that's good enough for me.
- Jun 29, 2012
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This is very, VERY fair, and I completely respect these points,
A few things, though:
The Mickey in “Fantasmic!” is not characteristically like the Mickey in “M&MRR”, in my opinion. Mickey in the ride/the short film that plays in the next-door theatre packs Pluto into The trunk of a car unwittingly. Mickey in the show handily battles the personification of evil. And I’d say Fantasmic is an attraction that might as well count as a ride, considering the hype and the impact it makes on vacation plans.
There’s something to me that is decidedly in a different level of immersion and seriousness in Star Tours and Jedi Training (ESPECIALLY Jedi Training, which is almost an AU if it wasn’t carefully placed into cannon in the way that some episodes of early Clone Wars feel like fanfiction), but let’s say that there is no seam, because technically there is not.
If we are going to go into this “canon” for Mario in any serious way, let’s talk about the forced marriage of Princess Peach in many of the Nintendo games, especially in Odyssey (and the implications of that), and how Mario murders Bowser multiple times to save her. While this is no different in many ways to the storyline of “Sleeping Beauty”, Phillip, Aurora, and Maleficent never played board games together nor went out go-karting.
The idea that “Paper Mario” cannot exist because the story is too different seems to me a little bit silly, considering the inconsistency of the relationship/friendships of the characters in the first place. Presumably, in the parks, the gang will be in “friendly competition”, perhaps with Bowser being a little more bitter than the rest to create some story texture and to nod to the fact that he can be an actual awful monster, but that, I don’t think, precludes the aesthetic of “Paper Mario”, in which the story changes completely with each game, and with Bowser especially shown in a much more positive light than usual (more in line with a theme park spin, IMHO.)
I see what you mean with the Spider-Man analogy, and it’s a really fair point. But I think it’s a little flawed, as Nintendo has made and put it’s seal of approval on all of the Mario games, in a way that Disney has not had control of every version of Spider-Man.
What this really makes me think of is Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin, though. Based on an animated TV show in a world where Buzz Lightyear can indeed fly and is really a space ranger. We enter this “alternate universe”. Go to Hollywood Studios and Buzz is a toy, where the entire arc of his first film was that, indeed, he is not a space ranger. In other parks around the world, both versions of Buzz exist in the same park, as he passes by on a parade float made of toys.
Now, I don’t see a full “Paper Mario” attraction coming any time soon - Nintendo and Universal ought to have bigger fish to fry, and people won’t clamor for it - but I don’t see why in any meaningful DESIGN way that a gateway to the paper world can’t exist. Or even a section of a store that has somehow become two-dimensional and angular.
- Jul 27, 2015
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I can understand your argument, while I disagree on some points. Fantasmic isn’t a “Mickey Mouse” attraction; It’s a Disney attraction with Mickey Mouse. That’s why it features numerous characters and plot points that are unequivocally separate from “Mickey’s” world. It’s a similar reason why the Princesses can interact in very specific circumstances. Belle and Jasmine aren’t going to visit Arendelle, but can visit each other in neutral locations.
Buzz is a toy in every attraction he’s in. Space Ranger Spin is full of toys, including Viewfinders and batteries, so there’s no violation of continuity there either.
But, really, the crux is really why? Why confuse guests with a drastically different presentation of the same characters in the same location? Why, when you’re striving to create a fully immersive world, would you intentionally break continuity? And introducing the Paper Mario aesthetic to Mushroom Kingdom as presented by Universal does exactly that.
It would be like having one shop in Galaxy’s Edge having The Clone Wars aesthetic while everything else is the films. It would stand out in a not good way.
- Jun 29, 2012
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Yes, perhaps, with Fantasmic. Though I don’t think any of the characters really interact with each other aside from the Villains to the Evil Queen, though they are really interacting with a summoning spell. And of course Mickey to these characters, which is understood to be... okay, according to Disney canon. The talking mouse can talk to medieval human princesses so long as none of them dare lay eyes on one another... weird, but whatever. But I think the point of two Mickeys with vastly different personalities and in vastly different worlds in the same park stands. Mickey is the lead in the show, that’s no question. The first sentence we hear is about Mickey and the last few minutes of the show features him in three costume changes. In the show, Mickey is Disney.
The line they walk with Buzz is fine. Especially in the version of the ride in Shanghai, it is quite clear that the toy iconography is nearly wiped. Yes, he’s surrounded by toys in Florida, but he can also fly and shoot effective lasers. It’s similar to a Toy Story opening dream sequence, I’ll cave there, but they are playing fast and loose with the rules of the universe.
I think “why” is honestly the best point. Why indeed? I agree ten thousand percent. I think “why” is merchandising, honestly. Paper Mario is beyond cute, and if there was some sort of small experience, “boss battle” play zone, Easter egg (like the parceltongue alley), I think people would become enchanted with the art style and buy more merchandise. Disney has made more money with a purple wall.
The same conversation can be had with “Toon Link”, which would arguably be much worse of a fit, especially because there is almost NO in-story reason his universe would exist in the main canon of games. Link’s story is one of time travel and alternate dimensions, sure. There are ways to spin it. But it’s a lot of effort. That being said... if a Hyrule is ever built, I can see designers taking extra steps to include the toon aesthetic somewhere, even in a small way. Toon Link will sell loungefly backpacks.
Of course they don’t need to build ANYTHING to sell cute merchandise. They could sell the same stuff in the carts leading up to either park, if they want. But I think there is high potential to upsell a lot of really adorable merch, especially if people have a vacation memory attached.
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- Aug 7, 2018
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Back to speculation...
One thing that I think this park REALLY could have going for it, are their shows. Disney crowds LOVE their shows, as do most families and parents as its a place to rest, and when well done can actually be a draw. To me, obviously other than the highly themed environments more like Diagon, the shows here are whats going to make EU different than any Orlando park. These have the potential to be highly highly immersive in their settings, special effects, HHN people working on the Frankenstein show, Dreamworks id hope is collaborating on the HTTYD show, and they've nailed everything with Potter thus far and to a degree I don't expect that to change. Shows in my eyes not only take up time (you'd be surprised how many people just want "something to do" on their theme park vacations) and if they are the proper 25 min shows, thats nearly 2 hours between waiting for the shows and actually sitting down and watching them. Thats a huge chunk of time.
To add to that, shows help spread out your theme park. I remember when we'd go to Lost Continent when Sinbad was open (I was a teen and didn't hate it don't judge), we'd always end our day at Sinbad, then head over to Mythos for dinner. That took us like 2 hours each time!! Im not one who looks to fill time, but I'm very aware many families who go on theme park vacations do. Shows add time, keep their kids seated, and its something ANYONE of any age, mobility, or thrill level can do and see. If well done I feel this will make these themed environments 10x more immersive then they're already trying to present them. Shows add a lot Imo, Universal needs more of them. I can't help but imagine one more show in USF makes USF a full day park w/o Diagon. Not entirely sure it is now unless you realllyyyy take your time. Same goes for IOA, although IOA has always somewhat depended on water rides when trying to make a full day or two out of that park. IF IOA had just 1 show in Toon Lagoon, or Lost Continent, or Seuss Landing besides the Holiday's, IOA is very easily a 2 day park imo.
Main point being, while I get most people just go to a park and don't necessarily go to get everything done, shows can really extend a families day at a theme park. If guests are loving these really well themed environments, along with the shows, Imo this will make EU, easily, a 2-3 day park even for the average guest. Maybe I'm overthinking it and am just personally excited, but having gone to Disney and seeing how popular those shows can be I expect this to be a major plus for EU in helping to recruit more families.
One thing that I think this park REALLY could have going for it, are their shows. Disney crowds LOVE their shows, as do most families and parents as its a place to rest, and when well done can actually be a draw. To me, obviously other than the highly themed environments more like Diagon, the shows here are whats going to make EU different than any Orlando park. These have the potential to be highly highly immersive in their settings, special effects, HHN people working on the Frankenstein show, Dreamworks id hope is collaborating on the HTTYD show, and they've nailed everything with Potter thus far and to a degree I don't expect that to change. Shows in my eyes not only take up time (you'd be surprised how many people just want "something to do" on their theme park vacations) and if they are the proper 25 min shows, thats nearly 2 hours between waiting for the shows and actually sitting down and watching them. Thats a huge chunk of time.
To add to that, shows help spread out your theme park. I remember when we'd go to Lost Continent when Sinbad was open (I was a teen and didn't hate it don't judge), we'd always end our day at Sinbad, then head over to Mythos for dinner. That took us like 2 hours each time!! Im not one who looks to fill time, but I'm very aware many families who go on theme park vacations do. Shows add time, keep their kids seated, and its something ANYONE of any age, mobility, or thrill level can do and see. If well done I feel this will make these themed environments 10x more immersive then they're already trying to present them. Shows add a lot Imo, Universal needs more of them. I can't help but imagine one more show in USF makes USF a full day park w/o Diagon. Not entirely sure it is now unless you realllyyyy take your time. Same goes for IOA, although IOA has always somewhat depended on water rides when trying to make a full day or two out of that park. IF IOA had just 1 show in Toon Lagoon, or Lost Continent, or Seuss Landing besides the Holiday's, IOA is very easily a 2 day park imo.
Main point being, while I get most people just go to a park and don't necessarily go to get everything done, shows can really extend a families day at a theme park. If guests are loving these really well themed environments, along with the shows, Imo this will make EU, easily, a 2-3 day park even for the average guest. Maybe I'm overthinking it and am just personally excited, but having gone to Disney and seeing how popular those shows can be I expect this to be a major plus for EU in helping to recruit more families.
- Jun 29, 2012
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Hard agree.
I wonder how hardcore the Monster show will be. How much scarier than “Horror Makeup”, I mean.
- Aug 7, 2018
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Id expect scarier and less campy, but who knows. I don't think there are any rumors for what the show will entail but since we know the setting of the land, leaves the mind to wonder haha.
I don't think it would be scary at all. Well "purposefully" scary. These parks are still family parks, and the show will reflect that since the ride will probably have a decent height requirement.
I can easily see a Pooh's Honey Huny style attraction for Animal Crossing, if they were inclined to go that route.
Animal Crossing has been around for 19 years...its not a brand new thing.
- Jan 30, 2013
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Just to show the growth of this last one. How big of a deal is 'Animal Crossing'? It had the biggest launch of any Nintendo Switch game, including 'Mario' and 'Zelda.'
That may be, but it isn't a cultural touchstone. It's something gamers know, not the general public who doesn't play games. I'm not a gamer, but there are certain game things that I know because they've integrated into pop culture. Everyone knows Mario and Donkey Kong. It's only in the past 8 weeks I've ever heard of Animal Crossing. You don't spend hundreds of millions of dollars on building theme park attractions unless you know the audience is there now and will continue to be there in 10+ years. There are so many theme park attractions that were based on something that just went away-- look at Barney, Fievel, Jimmy Neutron, etc. They were all HUGE properties at one point...
Unless you’re building a store or some kind of meet & greet or walkthrough Animal Crossing doesn’t really lend itself to a theme park. It’s a life simulator and the fact that it came out during COVID lockdown was just a perfect storm for huge success. Not saying it wasn’t already popular but it’s an easy thing to grasp for why it’s done so insanely well.
- Jul 30, 2018
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While I believe it's very fair that one should wait and see on the lasting popularity of Animal Crossing (and we would have to anyways nothing additional would be planned for before 2025 or later at this point), it's certainly not gonna hold at the same level as it currently is at now (at least not without merch and other plans). I would say it has a lot of things going for it long term, for one the appeal isn't that high concept, people like cute animal characters, it's a franchise that appeals a lot across varying demographics but especially historically women and children. I would also say it's certainly at a level of popularity that's far higher than Fievel or Jimmy Neutron was ever at and frankly was one of Nintendo's bigger IPs prior to this latest one taking off and I don't think it will fall into obscurity anytime either but that's just me.
But also frankly, I don't think looking at things strictly from "cultural touchstone" status is too helpful anymore, there aren't many major "cultural touchstone" IPs left either not owned by competitors , already licensed out to someone else , or that wouldn't be spending money on more licenses when Universal have lots to work with already. Animal crossing falls under stuff Universal already have the rights to use, has general appeal and hits demographics I assume they want to branch more in to. That said if there is more Nintendo stuff, I doubt it jumps ahead of Pokemon (which accomplishes a lot of similar things with proven longevity) or Zelda so *shrugs*.
But also frankly, I don't think looking at things strictly from "cultural touchstone" status is too helpful anymore, there aren't many major "cultural touchstone" IPs left either not owned by competitors , already licensed out to someone else , or that wouldn't be spending money on more licenses when Universal have lots to work with already. Animal crossing falls under stuff Universal already have the rights to use, has general appeal and hits demographics I assume they want to branch more in to. That said if there is more Nintendo stuff, I doubt it jumps ahead of Pokemon (which accomplishes a lot of similar things with proven longevity) or Zelda so *shrugs*.
- Jul 13, 2018
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I think the difference there is that Barney, Fivel, and Jimmy Neutron were pushed really hard but faded out, whereas Animal Crossing has been steadily growing and growing over the years.
We'll see. CV may have exaggerated numbers. But theme parks aren't waiting decades anymore to introduce recently successful properties into the parks anymore (Despicable Me, Frozen, Zootopia). Honestly, I think it'll depend on merch sales, though regardless of popularity, I don't see anything happening with Animal Crossing in the near future except an increased merch presence and maybe character encounters in SNW or Kidzone. I do think it would be good fodder for a relaxing dark ride or boat ride, something like Seven Voyages of Sindbad at Tokyo DisneySea.
I picture an indoor store where you can interact with the towns people by knocking on doors (think Sesame Street at SeaWorld)
It would be a fun shop for sure...But there really isn't anything that lends itself to an engaging "ride" with Animal Crossing...
Especially not the type of rides Universal creates
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