The State of Epcot

[Andy]

How to fix Epcot.... If money wasn't an option lol

100% focus on Future World. I feel like World Showcase is fine as is, it pulls crowds every night and even with a reborn Future World is still possesses everything needed to pull the same amount of crowds. As for Future World I'd gut everything except TT. Each pavilion gets 1 major attraction, 1 minor attraction, 1 sit down restaurant, 1 quick serve, 2 stores, and 1 special interactive feature.

• New Entrance
• Golf Ball ride updated to reflect 20th century and going forward
• All of Future Worlds hub is demolished and rebuilt as indoor gateway to different portals of the future
• Pavilions revolve around the future of science
• Biological Pavilion
• Formal Science Pavilion (Mathematics and Logic)
• Space Pavilion (Reuse Soarin)
• Transportation Pavilion (test track)
• Social Science Pavilion
• Earth Science Pavilion

 

[Brian G.]

The trouble with attractions based on tech is that as things become obsolete, they look really out of place. Like watching a movie from the early 90's that have those bulky portable phone sets or a couple of the future? scenes in Carousel of Progress that are outdated. It actually becomes humorous to a degree.

CoP is humorous because John looks like a serial killer.

 

[ThemeParks4Life]

Golf Ball ride

:ban:

 

[IzzyB]

How to fix Epcot.... If money wasn't an option lol

100% focus on Future World. I feel like World Showcase is fine as is, it pulls crowds every night and even with a reborn Future World is still possesses everything needed to pull the same amount of crowds. As for Future World I'd gut everything except TT. Each pavilion gets 1 major attraction, 1 minor attraction, 1 sit down restaurant, 1 quick serve, 2 stores, and 1 special interactive feature.

• New Entrance
• Golf Ball ride updated to reflect 20th century and going forward
• All of Future Worlds hub is demolished and rebuilt as indoor gateway to different portals of the future
• Pavilions revolve around the future of science
• Biological Pavilion
• Formal Science Pavilion (Mathematics and Logic)
• Space Pavilion (Reuse Soarin)
• Transportation Pavilion (test track)
• Social Science Pavilion
• Earth Science Pavilion

I like a lot of this and was kinda what I was saying which is concentrate on the sciences not just tech and future. But obviously I was working with less money. I do have to say I would be very sad if Living with the Land left, I really do like that boat ride and restaurant.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Epcot's problem is it's a park without an identity, and I don't think it can ever get one back.

It's going to be a mess from here on out, IMO. They could add some decent rides here or there, but I don't think it will ever be more than middling as a complete park.

Sean hits the nail on the head. Epcot is a park damned like none other. It has the ties to Walt like Disneyland without any of his actual care or consideration, like MK.

Epcot Center was created by a Walt Disney Company that doesn't exist anymore. Epcot hasn't had a purpose or mission since 2001. Imagineering now has the nearly impossible task of either rededicating the park or course correcting back to the original mission of entertainment and education.

Epcot doesn't just need to catch up to modern parks but surpass them and simply adding a few new attractions will not due it. Epcot has atrophied to the point where it's for locals dining, drunks, festivals, and Soarin.

This is Disney's fault pure and simple. The poster boy of incompetence in theme parks.

 

[MrRoamer]

Love what HTF and Izzy are saying. In my opinion, the only rides that are safe are TT, Soarin, Spaceship Earth (with redo to second half where the ride falls apart), and Imagination (full redo more akin to original where imagination is at the forefront).

One other point is that the 1 major 1 minor for WS is that the 360 theaters do not count as an attraction or even really a show. I feel these always do a poor job of piquing interest and capturing attention span of many people, regardless of how well they may be put together or the messages they are trying to portray. It works at a museum or something along those lines, but not at a world class theme park.

 

[Cole]

Well adding a 2-3 rides is a bit different from your earlier statement that each country needs a ride.

Yeah that was a bit too much lol, I meant to say each country could easily have a ride through its material alone.

Another thing for future world, it was a flawed concept from the start. Pretty much anything future related will be dated within years to maybe months depending on what it is. That's why it's stupid to base anything off the future that isn't complete fantasy like tomorrow land. Things have to be updated constantly to be relevant and for a theme park that's literally impossible. Nothing in future world is really timeless. It's sad too because Disney knows this and kinda goofs on the fact, like in the end videos for spaceship earth. There's nothing really there that really breaks the mold of technology or showcases anything without a little wink wink thrown in. Even the fun pavilions like imagination or the sea suck now because of their crappy rides.

I think we all have to step back and look at how far Epcot has evolved. It has lost pretty much all of its opening attractions, doubled its size and replaced a ton throughout its 33 year old run. For it to still be dated after all of that is seriously awful, I feel like Disney's just given up on what to do with it. Well time to just sit here for another decade until they figure out what that is....again

 

[Shucker]

The ultimate problem is EPCOT still draws around 11M guests per year and will draw more this year once a cheap Frozen attraction is opened. So if you are management and only looking at the books, what would motivate you to make any changes? Until guests stop going in large quantities I don't foresee many changes in the future. And I dont see guests stopping with MK and multi-day passes making it worth the $$$ to actually go. Vast number of people go to Orlando for MK and visit other parks while they are there. I enjoy EPCOT, but every time I go I lose a little love for it.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

The ultimate problem is EPCOT still draws around 11M guests per year and will draw more this year once a cheap Frozen attraction is opened. So if you are management and only looking at the books, what would motivate you to make any changes? Until guests stop going in large quantities I don't foresee many changes in the future. And I dont see guests stopping with MK and multi-day passes making it worth the $$$ to actually go. Vast number of people go to Orlando for MK and visit other parks while they are there. I enjoy EPCOT, but every time I go I lose a little love for it.

I remember when parks were improved because of pride and the desire to offer the best product. "People still go" is a terrible excuse from Disney. Also this all is predicated on the assumption Epcot actually gets 11 million guests a year.

 

[SeventyOne]

I think the idea of a "World's Fair" is fundamentally a 20th Century idea. It just doesn't work today.

Everyone nails the future/tech issue--sometime in the 90s we learned the future wasn't ever going to be flying cars and robot butlers and probably not even things we actually already had like holograms and hydroponic farms. But even World Showcase feels less and less organic as the world grows smaller and more homogenized. Pavilions seem either hopelessly dated and hokey (France, Norway, Morocco) or descend into a mishmash of random pop culture icons (UK, Japan).

As long as the Pixie Dusters and Winter Park rubes continue to fall for variations on Food & Wine, I think it will generate enough revenue to limp along. I doubt that's forever, though, and TDO may already have pushed too hard, but that happens, EPCOT is in trouble. It's fundamentally broken. But Disney needs the capacity so I doubt we'll see any progress until it bottoms out.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

To bastardize Syndrome quote: "When everything is a festival, nothing is."

 

[Shucker]

I remember when parks were improved because of pride and the desire to offer the best product. "People still go" is a terrible excuse from Disney. Also this all is predicated on the assumption Epcot actually gets 11 million guests a year.

I would suspect they do get that number and have been getting that number for some time. I agree it would be nice if they actually took pride in the park, but what has come of the imagination pavilion show there isn't a lot of interest in making the park better. And if you are pulling in the numbers like the park is, what is the financial rationale to do anything?? For better or worse, financial rationale is what drives everything.

 

[belloq87]

Despite its current flaws, Epcot is still my favorite theme park. With that preface out of the way, here’s how I’d like to see it get some of its magic back… if the budget was 4 - 5 billion dollars:

1. Journey Into Imagination Overhaul - Whether that involves INSIDE OUT would be open for debate, but it should be a return to the vibe of the original iteration; a celebration of imagination on a grand scale, utilizing the entire building and with Figment as our lovable (rather than annoying) guide. Dazzle guests with state of the art effects.

2. English Literature Adventure (U.K. Pavilion) - Classic dark ride taking guests on a journey through great works of Brit lit which come to life in front of you: Sherlock Holmes, Shakespeare, Alice in Wonderland, Dracula, A Christmas Carol/Dickens, Mary Poppins, etc.

3. Rhine River Cruise (Germany Pavilion) - Resurrect the long-forgotten plans as they were originally conceived.

4. Universe of Energy Overhaul - Gut the building and reconceive the experience in a way that modernizes the content. Shorten the overall experience to something that doesn’t eat up an hour of the guests’ time.

5. Carousel of Progress - Move it into the now-defunct Wonders of Life area and update the last scene appropriately. Not only is it more “of a piece” with Epcot than Magic Kingdom, I’d argue, but the move would free up that space in Tomorrowland to be developed. Move the festival stuff into some of the dead Innoventions space.

6. New Horizons - A pure nostalgia play, certainly. Replacing Mission: Space, this is a new, state-of-the-art dark ride embracing the spirit of the original by celebrating science and its positive impact on where human society could be headed.

7. If we absolutely need something to appeal to the kids, I'd be fine with Ratatouille coming to France (in addition to what's already there), provided the storyline is slightly tweaked to more emphasize the food/cooking aspects of it (since food is a big part of French culture) and not just the zany antics.

 

[SeventyOne]

5. Carousel of Progress - Move it into the now-defunct Wonders of Life area and update the last scene appropriately. Not only is it more “of a piece” with Epcot than Magic Kingdom, I’d argue, but the move would free up that space in Tomorrowland to be developed. Move the festival stuff into some of the dead Innoventions space.

Not really the venue, but since this always comes up in proposed EPCOT rehabs--last scene not enough, desperately needs a 70s scene between late 40s/5 minutes into the future. Could also tweek the 40s into more clearly the 50s (music cues, sets would probably be enough). Make it 1900/1925/1950/1975/now. Which is already too huge a jump. So maybe let it die.

 

[belloq87]

Not really the venue, but since this always comes up in proposed EPCOT rehabs--last scene not enough, desperately needs a 70s scene between late 40s/5 minutes into the future. Could also tweek the 40s into more clearly the 50s (music cues, sets would probably be enough).

Were I the Imagineer in charge of this hypothetical move/refurb, I'd be open to pitches to more fully bring the attraction up-to-date while still keeping as much of the original version's spirit and setpieces intact.

 

[UAN17]

Rebrand Future World Discovery World, and things instantly make more thematic sense...the updates can then go from there.

There's nothing in the land or the seas that screams future to me, but with some tweaks they could easily shout about Discovery. What could be more exciting to discover than space? Expand the pavilion beyond Mission Space but enhance that ride with a new film, more interactivity etc. Add tron and a trackless dark ride themed to inside out ride in imagination.

Do anything with the wonders of life - a kids play area where they discover the human body, whatever...just anything.

Ratatouille in France and, although unlikely, a dark ride in the UK could work. Rapids ride in Cananda?

 

[WAJAS]

I got it! Completely take down the current post-show area and build a second Spaceship Earth! Have the ride go from one to the other and it would be able to fit all the historical stuff it needs with extra space!

 

[Cwoolboy]

I used to love EPCOT, and counted it as my favorite park at WDW. Not so much anymore. I've been there so many times, and while I always enjoy visiting there, there just isn't as much to do. Luckily the food options are pretty good (The ice cream in France is great, and I really enjoy the Mexico restaurant inside the pyramid), and Test Track, SpaceShip Earth, and the Mexico Ride are always fun but as is....it's not really a full day park (unless you're there during Food and Wine). It's kind of sad, because EPCOT really started out as a tribute to a lot of Walt's firmly held beliefs and ideas, and it's not so much about that anymore (I finally got to ride the Monorail into EPCOT recently, and I got chills when it circled around Future World. Must have been similar to what Walt imagined his transport system would have been like in his version of EPCOT). The best way they can fix the park is yes, add more rides, shows and experiences while remembering and holding true to what the park was always about in the first place: A celebration of Uncle Walt's ideas and beliefs.

 

[Prototype_82]

Tear down Mission Space and make room for Light Coasters.
GUT the Imagination Pavilion and make a large Inside Out ride. 60% of that building is vacant.
Drain the giant fish tank, put new glass, new interior structure to the Seas...revamp that finding nemo ride.
Remove Jib Jab from Spaceship Earth, and make a really grand finale again.
Take Ellen out of Universe of Energy, update the film or get rid of it all together. Expand the "ride" portion

Removing the aquarium is a terrible idea. You might as well tear the green houses out of the Land.... Also, Mission Space is rad. Universe of Comedy needs to be replaced before anything. It's sad to look at.

 

[rhino4evr]

Removing the aquarium is a terrible idea. You might as well tear the green houses out of the Land.... Also, Mission Space is rad. Universe of Comedy needs to be replaced before anything. It's sad to look at.

I don't want them to "remove" the aquarium, just do an extensive rehab. It's looking really, really crusty in it's current state.

Also Mission Space is not popular with a lot of guests.