The Future of PortAventura

[Brian G.]

Not antagonistic, it's just that sometimes it comes across as people talking down to us with info we already know and have contrasted.

Also, even if he's from the UK, I feel like the person who originally posted the comment deserves more respect than to be told he has stockholm syndrome.

As stated before, it's really not that deep. We're all capable of having discussions without having to find some underlying meaning to it all.

Tone is hard to decipher online, I've been guilty of misjudging in the past, so my advice is to treat each post at face value.

Not everyone is eager to share what they know in the same vein, and not everyone gets information the same way. So someone may be less wordy with what they know for a good reason.

 

[Nico]

Yeah, while my fellow countryman around here seems to be going off the rails, I am going to try and give context to some of what he is saying, that goes without trying to justify in any way his attitude.

I know you guys dont know the european market, at least in regards to insiders and who is trustworthy and who doesnt.

Ally, @aalllllyyyyyy in twitter, is a well known source of Disneyland Paris information, has inside information and shares as much as he can, some weeks ago he said that Universal was approaching DLP employees to work at an European park, while replying the news of PortAventura being for sale.

Then Parque a Parque, @deparqueaparque in twitter, is also a well known source in regards to PortAventura, they are quite new in the scene, but in the last few months they have been spot on with their information, proving that they also have some kind of insider knowledge, and they shared the news of the new COO of PortAventura coming from DLP, while saying that Universal was the one buying PortAventura, they recently have been a bit cryptic but said that pretty much the buyout was a done deal, just pending the official signature and press release.

I do believe those are, at least, some of the reasons why Cooper is so confident in the spanish universal park, and why you should look into what those insiders say.

Obviously dont expect the source of their information, as nobody would share that, but at least look at the previous things they shared well before it was confirmed and made official by both parks before you can decide if you label them as baseless rumors or want to look further into them

Thanks for putting it all into context! Speaking just for myself, I like to examine potential confirmation bias situations when I’m going off rumors. Does the source of the rumor *want* the rumor to be true? If yes, it doesn’t negate the rumor, just gives me another level of consideration. I think that’s why I have been hesitant and awaiting an announcement.

There is a lot of stuff that feels like something is coming to Europe. There is definitely a lot of passion from the community to see that come to fruition with a purchase of PA. I would want that too, if it was me.

At the end of the day, there’s a reason why “both sides” are so passionate, we clearly all think highly of Universal. I look forward to an announcement either way. But fan to fan, I will truly be disappointed for you and all others rooting for this if it doesn’t come true. I know how much it sucks when a rumor for whatever reason doesn’t come true.

But also, who knows? Maybe they are buying PA & building a new park in the UK. I’m honestly still thinking about @Tomfoolery ’s post.

 

[UER]

Thanks for putting it all into context! Speaking just for myself, I like to examine potential confirmation bias situations when I’m going off rumors. Does the source of the rumor *want* the rumor to be true? If yes, it doesn’t negate the rumor, just gives me another level of consideration. I think that’s why I have been hesitant and awaiting an announcement.

There is a lot of stuff that feels like something is coming to Europe. There is definitely a lot of passion from the community to see that come to fruition with a purchase of PA. I would want that too, if it was me.

At the end of the day, there’s a reason why “both sides” are so passionate, we clearly all think highly of Universal. I look forward to an announcement either way. But fan to fan, I will truly be disappointed for you and all others rooting for this if it doesn’t come true. I know how much it sucks when a rumor for whatever reason doesn’t come true.

But also, who knows? Maybe they are buying PA & building a new park in the UK. I’m honestly still thinking about @Tomfoolery ’s post.

Whatever comes to Europe is fine by me, its not the same 1000€ plane tickets to Orlando than 100€ plane tickets to anywhere within Europe.

In the UK I would expect something like Frisco, if they ever build something around there, since Brexit europeans think twice before going to the UK because half of the people dont even know if they need any extra paperwork or visa and they dont look into it, they just book a flight to Paris, Berlin, Madrid or Barcelona where they know they can travel hassle free

 

[AlexanderMBush]

The more I consider the UK--the more I actively think Universal would actually just opt to go for a full scale UK park.

The UK already has quite a few family parks, but not really a true "World-Class" destination. The closest is Alton; but even that's hindered by regional elements with the nearby Alton residences.

 

[MikePat]

The UK already has quite a few family parks, but not really a true "World-Class" destination.

Idk... there's some big UK competition with The London Resort and their Jumping Spiders.

 

[tommyhawkins]

I'm telling you now. Cut it out. That's not how it's gonna work. If anyone else gives any attitude in retort, they'll get the same warning.

And Tommy is from the UK so he's not putting down "other countries".


I think this is where wires are getting crossed.

It seems you're taking our opposite stance as more antagonistic to your intel, which isn't the case. Just stating what we know on our side. As I stated before - if it happens cool, if not, also cool. No skin off our back.

Whereas it seems y'all are a bit more heavily invested.

I mean id rather not be outed in this way but I can confirm I am bi-continental with my Theme Park investigations

 

[Dan Cooper]

The more I consider the UK--the more I actively think Universal would actually just opt to go for a full scale UK park.

The UK already has quite a few family parks, but not really a true "World-Class" destination. The closest is Alton; but even that's hindered by regional elements with the nearby Alton residences.

That'd be difficult tho, considering how the UK has abandoned the EU and the economy still hasn't recovered. Also, we know for a fact that "big brand" resorts are just not viable in Europe (the EuroDisney fiasco, Warner Bros Movie World, Paramount Park) unless it's attached to other destination. Only the ones that have started as small "one park" projects survived (except Disneyland Paris).

In Spain they would have both Barcelona and the beach, but I cant think of any place in the UK that could attract the same number of visitors looking for a "leisure" holiday aside from the London Metropolitan area and Brighton.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

That'd be difficult tho, considering how the UK has abandoned the EU and the economy still hasn't recovered. Also, we know for a fact that "big brand" resorts are just not viable in Europe (the EuroDisney fiasco, Warner Bros Movie World, Paramount Park) unless it's attached to other destination. Only the ones that have started as small "one park" projects survived (except Disneyland Paris).

And thinking on that--I would argue it ultimately comes down to the power of the brands that you implement; while also including that of what makes the UK it is.

If you could get people onboard with a world-class "in scale and scope" Theme Park that promimently features the brands of Pokemon and Super Mario/DK, The Wizarding World of Harry Potter, and Jurassic World ontop of UK IP such as content from the BBC (not too dissimilar from what was being considered for The London Resort); and I think you have more viability than you assume.

 

[Dan Cooper]

And thinking on that--I would argue it ultimately comes down to the power of the brands that you implement; while also including that of what makes the UK it is.

If you could get people onboard with a world-class "in scale and scope" Theme Park that promimently features the brands of Pokemon and Super Mario/DK, The Wizarding World of Harry Potter, and Jurassic World ontop of UK IP such as content from the BBC (not too dissimilar from what was being considered for The London Resort); and I think you have more viability than you assume.

That's the same formula Disney thought would work in France, and they still haven't recovered.

Universal at one point had also envisioned a resort just like Disneyland Paris for Spain (different than Port Aventura), but chickened out and chose Port Aventura instead

 

[AlexanderMBush]

That's the same formula Disney thought would work in France, and they still haven't recovered.

Universal at one point had also envisioned a resort just like Disneyland Paris for Spain (different than Port Aventura), but chickened out and chose Port Aventura instead

I'd argue there was a lot of issues that Disney had dealt with; that could skew to how Universal could differentiate that as opposed to Disney's tactics leading to the opening of EuroDisney.

Discriminative guidelines in the pre-planning and employment of workers; Government concerns; and mismanagement in the wake of not having an understanding to the city of Paris led to Disneyland Paris's failure at the start. It wasn't on simply the Disney "Brand", it was on the matter of the French citizens and leading up to the opening, the government being weary of the prospect of a Disneyland park in Paris.

You would be assuming Universal would operate under similar elements in the style of how Disney did when they entered the EU markets; when that market has not only evolved, but it has changed and updated as part of the tourism industry coming into place more and more. And assuming if Universal is to go into the EU/UK (UK is part of the European continent even if they do not have ties to the EU as it stands any longer); then one would assume that Universal would work much more in hand with the area of UK both on a governmental level and a public level to combat and circumvent those issues.

 

[tommyhawkins]

That's the same formula Disney thought would work in France, and they still haven't recovered.

Universal at one point had also envisioned a resort just like Disneyland Paris for Spain (different than Port Aventura), but chickened out and chose Port Aventura instead

lets establish some facts here.

If you have an undertaking to build a theme park, and want it to grow. You understand that you must continually invest in order for that to happen. Disney have chronically under invested, out of choice, in DLP since its opening. This is not the example you think it is.

Secondly, citing Universal of the era of ownership when they also sold all the land for Epic Universe is also not the best example either. And most certainly doesnt reflect todays market or how Comcast ( a different owner) ooperates NBCUniversal today, or the amount of cash it has on hand.

Again, what benefit does NBCU have, buying a glorified Six Flags and spending a poop ton of cash reskining it?

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Again, what benefit does NBCU have, buying a glorified Six Flags and spending a poop ton of cash reskining it?

The main reason I suspect, is due to the past affiliation that the NBCUniversal brand had when they had previously owned PortAventura.

But then, by that same extension; shouldn't that mean SeaWorld is just as viable as a potential buyer for the sake of PortAventura World (especially as a firm has been courting the property out).

 

[Nico]

The main reason I suspect, is due to the past affiliation that the NBCUniversal brand had when they had previously owned PortAventura.

But then, by that same extension; shouldn't that mean SeaWorld is just as viable as a potential buyer for the sake of PortAventura World (especially as a firm has been courting the property out).

Who owned Universal when they had stake in PortAventura?

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Who owned Universal when they had stake in PortAventura?

During the dark times--both Vivendi and GE (as they sold PortAventura then) in their respective moments. Good times.

 

[Brian G.]

I mean id rather not be outed in this way but I can confirm I am bi-continental with my Theme Park investigations

Apologies!

(Nice seeing you around these parts again, btw)

 

[AlexanderMBush]

And thinking on that--I would argue it ultimately comes down to the power of the brands that you implement; while also including that of what makes the UK it is.

If you could get people onboard with a world-class "in scale and scope" Theme Park that prominently features the brands of Pokémon and Super Mario/DK, The Wizarding World of Harry Potter, and Jurassic World ontop of UK IP such as content from the BBC (not too dissimilar from what was being considered for The London Resort); and I think you have more viability than you assume.

Thinking about this further--I actually wonder if Universal goes for it; if Potter might actually be out of contention. One has to imagine WB would want to preserve and keep foot traffic coming to that of the WBUK Museum; and in doing so it would force them to decline Universal using the IP for the sake of a park in the United Kingdom.

Would open a hole for other IP to come in and take that spot--Pokemon could easily do that; but it's something I hadn't considered until now.

 

[Dan Cooper]

lets establish some facts here.

If you have an undertaking to build a theme park, and want it to grow. You understand that you must continually invest in order for that to happen. Disney have chronically under invested, out of choice, in DLP since its opening. This is not the example you think it is.

Secondly, citing Universal of the era of ownership when they also sold all the land for Epic Universe is also not the best example either. And most certainly doesnt reflect todays market or how Comcast ( a different owner) ooperates NBCUniversal today, or the amount of cash it has on hand.

Again, what benefit does NBCU have, buying a glorified Six Flags and spending a poop ton of cash reskining it?

It wasn't out of choice. The built beyond their possibilities and the resort was bleeding money from the start because of that. Money was spent but debts kept adding up to the point where closing the park was even a possibility. Disney eventually sold most of their stock in the park and only bought it back in 2017.

Universal wanted to build their own resort at around that time, but saw that the model used for EuroDisney wouldn't work out and went for a smaller park instead.

This is literally my area of research. I have interviewed people involved in this whole ordeal, including economists and politicians of that time. I can also share some of the articles I've cited.

So if there's an area where I am 100% sure of the facts, its this one.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

It wasn't out of choice. The built beyond their possibilities and the resort was bleeding money from the start because of that. Money was spent but debts kept adding up to the point where closing the park was even a possibility. Disney eventually sold most of their stock in the park and has just bought it back in 2017.

Universal wanted to build their own resort at around that time, but saw that the model used for EuroDisney wouldn't work out and went for a smaller park instead.

This is literally my area of research. I have interviewed people involved in this whole ordeal, including economists and politicians of that time. I can also share some of the articles I've cited.

So if there's an area where I am 100% sure of the facts, its this one.

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Once again though--this is on the assumption that Universal would fall into the same trappings as TWDC did in the late 80's; when the difference between then and now is much more astounding. Especially with Comcast (and potentially the assistance of a group like Sky); one has to think that things would play out different with them having hands already set in the European market.

I also think if you simply buy a "pre-existing" geographical property; it would effectively shoehorn Universal into a position where they may not be able to make as much drastic changes as some may believe.

 

[Dan Cooper]

Once again though--this is on the assumption that Universal would fall into the same trappings as TWDC did in the late 80's; when the difference between then and now is much more astounding. Especially with Comcast (and potentially the assistance of a group like Sky); one has to think that things would play out different with them having hands already set in the European market.

I also think if you simply buy a "pre-existing" geographical property; it would effectively shoehorn Universal into a position where they may not be able to make as much drastic changes as some may believe.

I never talked about "today", just the past and what we can take away from it. Building a resort from the ground up in Europe has proven to be extremely risky. No ammount of money will make a product "foolproof". Its success relies on adapting the product to the social and economic dynamics of the place, which is very difficult. Even then, this resort would have to be adapted for the whole european public instead of just catering to one country.

There's a reason on why there hasnt been a "big" european theme park built since the early 2000s.

Edit: Also, the main advantage of buying an already existing property, be it PortAventura, Europa Park or Alton Towers, is not the already existing infrastructure, but the fact that it's already integrated into the economic and social landscape of its surroundings.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I never talked about "today", just the past and what we can take away from it. Building a resort from the ground up in Europe has proven to be extremely risky. No ammount of money will make a product "foolproof". Its success relies on adapting the product to the social and economic dynamics of the place, which is very difficult. Even then, this resort would have to be adapted for the whole european public instead of just catering to one country.

There's a reason on why there hasnt been a "big" european theme park built since the early 2000s.

Edit: Also, the main advantage of buying an already existing property, be it PortAventura, Europa Park or Alton Towers, is not the already existing infrastructure, but the fact that it's already integrated into the economic and social landscape of its surroundings.

You say that, but you are leaving out one that had a massive spike of exponential growth that occurred due to a EU grant issued to it (that has since been lapsed); and that is Energylandia.

You are basing that of what can happen "today" and in the future, off of that of the past; when I would imagine Comcast would be smart to work as close as they can to ensure a good relationship and communication with those in the UK (or anywhere else in the continent of Europe). Once again, it's not like they don't have businesses already fully operating within the region and territories as it stands right now.