The Future of DVC?

[GadgetGuru]

There's been a ton of conversation about DVC lately with all of the DVC construction that's happening / rumored.

What does everyone think DVC will look like in 10 years? Does anybody think that DVC is going to be a model for the rest of the theme park industry?

 

[Andysol]

Do any other parks have the capacity that Disney does for something like DVC? It's a model for the timeshare industry, certainly- look no further than resale prices. But it likely won't be any model for any theme parks.

I, for one, am glad I got into DVC when I did- I don't regret it at all and I loved my old cheap resale purchases from years ago. No way in hell I'd get into it now though.

 

[Nick]

Do any other parks have the capacity that Disney does for something like DVC? It's a model for the timeshare industry, certainly- look no further than resale prices. But it likely won't be any model for any theme parks.

I, for one, am glad I got into DVC when I did- I don't regret it at all and I loved my old cheap resale purchases from years ago. No way in hell I'd get into it now though.

Universal Orlando has the most hotel rooms connected (or will) of any other theme park destination in the world.

Second is Disneyland Paris with an impressive collection of rooms, totaling at 5,765 rooms. I'm slightly confused as to why DVC hasn't gone to Paris yet, especially considering Paris itself is just a beautiful destination city. They wouldn't have to make it a huge DVC, i'm thinking more on the small side like Grand Californian which only has a total of 100 DVC rooms I believe.

 

[JoeCamel]

Universal Orlando has the most hotel rooms connected (or will) of any other theme park destination in the world.

Second is Disneyland Paris with an impressive collection of rooms, totaling at 5,765 rooms. I'm slightly confused as to why DVC hasn't gone to Paris yet, especially considering Paris itself is just a beautiful destination city. They wouldn't have to make it a huge DVC, i'm thinking more on the small side like Grand Californian which only has a total of 100 DVC rooms I believe.

I am not sure but shared ownership (or not really owning as in DVC) operates under a different set of laws in France than it does in the US. Any international lawyers out there?

Edit to add: Maybe I am mistaken

France: Property schemes in France, Timeshare & Part-ownership, If you’re looking for a holiday home in

 

[epcyclopedia]

Disneyland Paris is, for all intents and purposes, not in Paris.

 

[Nick]

Disneyland Paris is, for all intents and purposes, not in Paris.

Well, yes, it's in Marne-la-Vallee. But it's still something I think could be sustained.

Let me be clear, i'm not talking about them going full Aulani here. I'm just saying adding a hundred or so rooms (maybe even less) onto an existing resort would seemingly be a good business proposition. Cheap to build and likely constantly filled.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Well, yes, it's in Marne-la-Vallee. But it's still something I think could be sustained.

Let me be clear, i'm not talking about them going full Aulani here. I'm just saying adding a hundred or so rooms (maybe even less) onto an existing resort would seemingly be a good business proposition. Cheap to build and likely constantly filled.

Who is the target audience?

DLP's tourists are really nothing like those at WDW, DLR or even TDL.

 

[Nick]

Who is the target audience?

DLP's tourists are really nothing like those at WDW, DLR or even TDL.

There are millions of DVC members. You announce a small scale DVC at DLP (or more preferably at TDLR) and it's going to fill up.

If you want a specific target audience, i'd say go after those within DVC that are older, maybe regretting ever buying into DVC, and are looking to travel the world now.

 

[GadgetGuru]

For DLP, I think it's a combination of market forces and legal issues. My gut tells me that Europeans don't abuse access to easy credit like Americans do and don't have as much disposable income (basically the same thing). Timeshares require a huge upfront cost that's usually paid with a loan. (Check out the documentary Queen of Versailles because it's amazing and also a decent primer into the timeshare industry).

The legal hurdles might not be in Disney's favor either. It sounds like timeshares are perfectly legal. But, I imagine there's a lot more regulation and scrutiny in France than in the USA.

 

[Andysol]

Universal Orlando has the most hotel rooms connected (or will) of any other theme park destination in the world.

Which isn't even half of Disney's DVC offerings at just WDW. Which doesn't include their other 4 non-WDW offerings.
Im not saying it won't eventually- but as it stands for now- there's no chance. Universal will certainly need a 3rd (4th) theme park to even broach the subject IMO. If it's priced at half of what Disney's is, if buy it. $95pp would probably be my cutoff point.

There are millions of DVC members. You announce a small scale DVC at DLP (or more preferably at TDLR) and it's going to fill up.

If you want a specific target audience, i'd say go after those within DVC that are older, maybe regretting ever buying into DVC, and are looking to travel the world now.

I agree with you- kind of. I think it would be filled continuously year round with DVC members- just like Aulani is. But I don't think people would buy there. Similar to Aulani- where it's immensely "popular" via DVC members, but it still isn't sold out 6 years later and has continuous add-on promotions they don't offer any of their other resorts during that time.
So the only way I see it being "successful" would be if they look at it as a "value added" benefit to sell their WDW resorts for more- no so much to sell Paris directly. Regardless- it would need to be a tiny add-on like GCV like you said (and likely smaller than that or maybe just studios). Because then there would always be a demand for the rooms at 7 months which might create some frustration for members so they choose to buy direct and get it at 11 months. Wouldn't be the craziest thing they've done.

 

[Wolf359]

There are millions of DVC members. You announce a small scale DVC at DLP (or more preferably at TDLR) and it's going to fill up.

If you want a specific target audience, i'd say go after those within DVC that are older, maybe regretting ever buying into DVC, and are looking to travel the world now.

Not trying to be flippant or anything but have you been to DLP?
It's been run into the ground since it's opening day, most of the staff could do with a dose of Disney magic as they wouldn't pass a first interview to work in Orlando. The weather is atrocious. It's improving now with the massive investment disney themselves have put in place. Plus Disney or even EuroDisney don't own a lot of the hotels there, in fact it's the hotel situation that has meant that it's lost money since it's opening day. The best thing Disney could do when they take it over completely shortly would be to put it into administration and dump the existing deals before restarting with a clean slate financially.

Plus the transatlantic flight costs would have a major effect on the cost thus preventing a lot of North American based DVC members. Most European DVC members would have no interest in travelling to DLP. As posted earlier it's not in Paris and even using the TGV it takes about 30-40 minutes to get into Paris (at least it did when we did the trip)

 

[Nick]

Not trying to be flippant or anything but have you been to DLP?
It's been run into the ground since it's opening day, most of the staff could do with a dose of Disney magic as they wouldn't pass a first interview to work in Orlando. The weather is atrocious. It's improving now with the massive investment disney themselves have put in place. Plus Disney or even EuroDisney don't own a lot of the hotels there, in fact it's the hotel situation that has meant that it's lost money since it's opening day. The best thing Disney could do when they take it over completely shortly would be to put it into administration and dump the existing deals before restarting with a clean slate financially.

Plus the transatlantic flight costs would have a major effect on the cost thus preventing a lot of North American based DVC members. Most European DVC members would have no interest in travelling to DLP. As posted earlier it's not in Paris and even using the TGV it takes about 30-40 minutes to get into Paris (at least it did when we did the trip)

Disney owns 7 hotels on property at DLP and over 5,500 rooms as I stated above.

Obviously this isn't something that is going to happen, but if it did, you would want to make it small as i've already said many times so that it's always full and you end with people not being able to get in. DVC always prefers that over empty rooms.

And as far as travel, the only major downside is economical changes over time as you will need to convert from the dollar to the euro so if the dollar isn't performing well, you may decide against it. However, planning a trip to Paris and the travel time in the air to get there is really not much different than it takes most US residents to over to Aulani. Obviously it's two different climates, but it's two different kind of vacations.

And yes, I have been there and i'm going back next Summer. Disney has finally been doing a lot up refurbishments at it's resorts and in the parks to make it less Six Flags and more Disney. Unfortunately the visitors don't treat the parks very well there. Not that they treat them great in the US, but graffiti is not something that lasts long stateside (or is even that common...)

 

[Wolf359]

The last I heard, from a UK financial program discussing DLP a few years ago, was that eurodisney SA don't actually own all of the 7 Disney hotels. From what I remember of the program there was a deal with the French govt before it opened that there would be x number of hotels built and that euroDisney would own & manage 10 of them, but until all x were built that euroDisney would not take ownership of the "Disney" hotels and that they (or a penalty) would be payable to a hotel consortium (presumably the ones in val d'europe etc). They were using this as the reason that DLP was not making money and in their opinion couldn't until all of the planned hotels were built, something that was never likely to happen. As I said this was a few years ago and so the details are sketchy.

I know that since then there has been a couple of bailouts from the parent company but from what the program was saying it was literally impossible (because of the original contract) for DLP to be profitable until all of the hotels were completed.

 

[Mr. EPCOT]

The last I heard, from a UK financial program discussing DLP a few years ago, was that eurodisney SA don't actually own all of the 7 Disney hotels. From what I remember of the program there was a deal with the French govt before it opened that there would be x number of hotels built and that euroDisney would own & manage 10 of them, but until all x were built that euroDisney would not take ownership of the "Disney" hotels and that they (or a penalty) would be payable to a hotel consortium (presumably the ones in val d'europe etc). They were using this as the reason that DLP was not making money and in their opinion couldn't until all of the planned hotels were built, something that was never likely to happen. As I said this was a few years ago and so the details are sketchy.

I know that since then there has been a couple of bailouts from the parent company but from what the program was saying it was literally impossible (because of the original contract) for DLP to be profitable until all of the hotels were completed.

So I wonder how that factors into the recent talk that the Walt Disney Company will take full ownership of Disneyland Paris by the end of the year. If that includes the hotels, I think that would increase the chances for any DVC to get added there.

 

[Wolf359]

So I wonder how that factors into the recent talk that the Walt Disney Company will take full ownership of Disneyland Paris by the end of the year. If that includes the hotels, I think that would increase the chances for any DVC to get added there.

They're not going to take full ownership of Disneyland Paris, they're taking full ownership of euroDisney SA. If what the program said is true then that may or may not include the hotels. That's why I said imho they should take it over, then immediately put it into administration and get rid of the initial contracts regarding the funding of the hotels before bringing it back from which point they would own the hotels.