Future of Toon Lagoon

[Legacy]

I’ll never understand why Universal doesn’t just add a cheap SpongeBob show at Toon Lagoon. They literally have an empty theater waiting for this. It’s easy money and it would eat crowds. Make it a “SING” type show.

Because even a bad show isn’t “cheap,” in the sense most people think, especially for a theater that size, and for a half-decent show. First, you have the up-front costs of upgrading/installing the show. That ignores any infrastructure upgrades that need to occur in the theater (which is probably substantial). Then you have to pay for the cast, which makes more than a front-line worker. They’ll typically get paid more based on need in the show, speaking roles get more than non-speaking, dancing, singing, stunts, etc. (think about how many actual speaking roles are in Bourne). Then you hire crew. More skilled positions that take time to find exactly what you need. Then you hire the minimum-wage attendants. Then… the show is poorly received.

The challenge for Universal is the lack of an “easy win” specifically for THAT theater. Disney is lousy with original music that, when performed live and well, will immediately draw a crowd. That amphitheater is actually best positioned for a “Theater in the Wild” remodel that supports a Broadway style show. But Universal doesn’t own the Broadway versions of the shows that fit that location. You want any show in that venue to fit Toon or Marvel. Developing a new show is extremely high risk. Universal’s track record is such they probably don’t dare touch that space until they *know* they have a winner.

 

[OrlLover]

I agree. Dudley Do-Right's Ripsaw Falls is an embarrassment in its current state, but Popeye's Bilge Rat Barges is a world-class raft ride even with lacking show maintenance. Even so, the other parks need help so much more. We can deal with Dudley for another decade.

Wait I’m confused…don’t both of those rides usually get refurbishments annually ?

 

[Brian G.]

Wait I’m confused…don’t both of those rides usually get refurbishments annually ?

Dudley did. Popeye didn't, probably because of the loss of JP.

 

[Clive]

Wait I’m confused…don’t both of those rides usually get refurbishments annually ?

The refurbishments tend to focus on maintaining the ride systems more than the show set, unfortunately.

 

[OrlLover]

Dudley did. Popeye didn't, probably because of the loss of JP.

That makes sense.

The refurbishments tend to focus on maintaining the ride systems more than the show set, unfortunately.

Oh well it’s an older ride so I understand them trying to maintain the basics. Universal might be thinking about possibly retheming or even rebuilding those rides in the future.

While I’m sure they get high GSAT’s the merch sales probably aren’t the greatest.

 

[greendude33]

Would Universal need to license the Spongebob Broadway show (that was received quite well!) if they wanted to use it in their parks? An abridged version of that show would fit well into TL theatre imo.

Would they need a more wholistic licensing deal with Nickelodeon anyway if they wanted to use Spongebob for an entire land re-theme?

 

[Legacy]

Would Universal need to license the Spongebob Broadway show (that was received quite well!) if they wanted to use it in their parks? An abridged version of that show would fit well into TL theatre imo.

Would they need a more wholistic licensing deal with Nickelodeon anyway if they wanted to use Spongebob for an entire land re-theme?

Yes, they would. And any abridged version that modifies it to the extent a 2.5 hour show becomes a half hour theme park experience would likely require license-holder approval.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Saw the video yesterday, he makes a compelling case.

Tl;dw Main Factors:
1) When Comcast renewed the deal in 2019, they owned the Jay Ward IPs, so there was potential corporate synergy with new projects. That's gone now.
2) Assuming LC work begins this year or next, should be done around 29-30. Right when the TL contracts are up. And it doesn't seem likely we'll see major overhauls to Potter, JP, Marvel, Kong or Seuss anytime soon. That basically means IoA would remain stagnant throughout the 2030s. Possible, but probably not desirable given you could give the Hogsmeade treatment to a new IP (maybe even two) in that space.

If it happens, I do hope the rides are just re-skinned. And maybe USO and EU need so much help they can afford to let IoA ride after LC's replacement. But I'm sure it's something corporate is looking at closely between now and 2029.

Thought people would learn from Disney’s escapades with retheming already popular attractions. It always ends up being a complete waste. I don’t like Dudley and I’ve never been on Popeye, but the rides work for a reason. Don’t mess with a good thing. It’s not worth it for the pittance the licensing fees must be. As for the comic strip section and the unused theatre, change that up. It’s basically free space.

 

[OrlLover]

Thought people would learn from Disney’s escapades with retheming already popular attractions. It always ends up being a complete waste. I don’t like Dudley and I’ve never been on Popeye, but the rides work for a reason. Don’t mess with a good thing. It’s not worth it for the pittance the licensing fees must be. As for the comic strip section and the unused theatre, change that up. It’s basically free space.

Biased much ?

 

[SeventyOne]

Thought people would learn from Disney’s escapades with retheming already popular attractions. It always ends up being a complete waste. I don’t like Dudley and I’ve never been on Popeye, but the rides work for a reason. Don’t mess with a good thing. It’s not worth it for the pittance the licensing fees must be. As for the comic strip section and the unused theatre, change that up. It’s basically free space.

I think that says more about Disney Imagineering lately in general than re-theming of rides. The appeal of Popeye is the water, you could change out the show scenes with a dozen IPs and it would still work as intended.

But also, the space isn't even free--much worse, it's an opportunity cost. Like a cruise ship, every square inch of a theme park needs to make money (according to modern corporate views). Dagwood's iconic-to-your-great-grandpa sandwiches and a Gasoline Alley store selling "Bort's Parking Only" signs are, in a very real sense, costing UOR money if a Spongebob or OnePiece themed snack bar and store would generate more revenue. That's why I don't think you can look at the rides in isolation--they only exist as the "weenie" to get you into the land to spend on food and merch.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I think that says more about Disney Imagineering lately in general than re-theming of rides. The appeal of Popeye is the water, you could change out the show scenes with a dozen IPs and it would still work as intended.

But also, the space isn't even free--much worse, it's an opportunity cost. Like a cruise ship, every square inch of a theme park needs to make money (according to modern corporate views). Dagwood's iconic-to-your-great-grandpa sandwiches and a Gasoline Alley store selling "Bort's Parking Only" signs are, in a very real sense, costing UOR money if a Spongebob or OnePiece themed snack bar and store would generate more revenue. That's why I don't think you can look at the rides in isolation--they only exist as the "weenie" to get you into the land to spend on food and merch.

The only reason it says more about Disney is because they’re the only ones doing these lazy and disappointing rethemes at the moment. Universal did a few in the 2000s (Simpsons anyone?) and were rightfully ripped apart for that. Retheming Popeye to SpongeBob or One Piece is a high cost low gain move. High cost because you’re changing something that already works and doesn’t need the spending. Low gain because you’re unlikely to deliver the experience longtime fans are looking for which will waste the IP and neuter merch sales from what they could be if they do something proper.

If you want to tear down Toon Lagoon and build a brand new experience, that’s one thing. It will eventually come to that either way. But we’re still a ways out before that is truly necessary. Lost Continent needs to be addressed. Studios really needs to be addressed. I think the other lands could also use smaller additions as well.