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Epic Universe Expansion Speculation

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brian G.
  • Start date Start date Jun 24, 2024
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GA-MBIT

GA-MBIT

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  • Saturday at 8:42 PM
  • #1,201
I think a show at the scale of a HMUS / Alien Encounter-type experience could function alright. Especially if a number of the key roles are animatronic a la Alien Encounter. Any bigger and you risk too big of an investment into performers, techs, managers, sets and props for, potentially, not much return.

We come back to the thought that some concepts are easier to pitch as a small part of a larger new park than as an expansion to an already existing one, and I just don't see a Monsters show happening as an expansion if it wasn't even viewed as workable as an opening day attraction.
 
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OhHaiInternet95

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  • Saturday at 8:50 PM
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So are there any actual details about the show that was in that initial concept art or was that just a placeholder?
 
jarmor

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  • Saturday at 9:01 PM
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Not sure what HMUS is but when it comes to Alien Encounter, was it really a "show" or more of an attraction? One can take it further and question whether Shrek was a show or an attraction? Could they create an "original" attraction storyline that is loosely based on the premises of jekyll/hyde? We are in luck as today the village doctor has created a serum that does blah blah blah and he is inviting us to witness the remarkable first public showing of it. He proceeds to test it on a small animal subject and its successful then he does the unthinkable and states hes gonna now test it on himself which he has never done. He states how he isn't sure how stable it is for a specimen of his size/human but he believes in his research. He takes it then all hell breaks loose.

Then it turns into an Alien encounter style attraction/show/??.

We can get a new attraction and an original story/character that kinda exist in the monster universe, but universal version.
 
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OhHaiInternet95

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jarmor said:
Not sure what HMUS is but when it comes to Alien Encounter, was it really a "show" or more of an attraction? One can take it further and question whether Shrek was a show or an attraction? Could they create an "original" attraction storyline that is loosely based on the premises of jekyll/hyde? We are in luck as today the village doctor has created a serum that does blah blah blah and he is inviting us to witness the remarkable first public showing of it. He proceeds to test it on a small animal subject and its successful then he does the unthinkable and states hes gonna now test it on himself which he has never done. He states how he isn't sure how stable it is for a specimen of his size/human but he believes in his research. He takes it then all hell breaks loose.

Then it turns into an Alien encounter style attraction/show/??.

We can get a new attraction and an original story/character that kinda exist in the monster universe, but universal version.
Click to expand...
One of those "too awesome to ever happen" ideas.
 
Skold

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I am so glad Universal Creative turned down your applications
 
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OhHaiInternet95

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Skold said:
I am so glad Universal Creative turned down your applications
Click to expand...
Hope it happens! But it *seems* like it took a lot of convincing to get a land for the A-tier Monsters as is.

@jarmor : Horror Makeup Show
 
Parkscope Joe

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simon said:
And suggesting that guests won’t sit through longer shows is contradicted by the enduring success of 20+ min attractions like Festival of the Lion King, Aladdin and even Bourne Stuntacular. What guests reject is low effort filler, not a high quality spectacle. A Broadway scale show, especially with an original Universal IP or adaptation like Wicked, would provide tremendous value and likely become one of the park's defining experiences. Finally, the idea that people “won’t line up” for a theater show ignores guest behavior entirely. Visitors lined up for quite long time for Fantasmic, Hyperion. Also, the capacity of two shows in Epic is always full and it's highly demanding. Because they offered something unique, memorable, and communal. A theater of this scale would not only help manage capacity but also serve as a signature offering that elevates Celestial Park’s identity from “hub” to “destination.”
Click to expand...

Taking out the 20 minutes line in the sand, I still stand by the fact guests are not interested in longer shows. If a show was to occur I think it would be an add-on that would be accessed from either inside or outside the park.

I think you misinterpreted my queueing point, I agree guests will queue up early and that's the problem. 1400 guests have to go somewhere, at the Hyperion it's a huge cattle pen next to the theater. So what about for Epic? Grinchmas shows the issues with this (also Grinchmas might be the answer to your question here about a full time Broadway like show).

Alicia said:
I really don't think the expansion space is being purpose-built for any specific show or event. It's likely just a box. And the permits indicate a quick construction timeline.
Click to expand...

I agree, just trying to entertain the thought of a Broadway-style show as it's recurring speculation.
 
Mad Dog

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As I've said a few years back when we knew Monsters show was no longer considered....I love theme park indoor shows, even more than most ride attractions...BUT...I don't believe three large indoor shows can exist in a Universal park, and pull in enough attendance, for a Universal management that's always skittish about live entertainment shows, to guarantee continued existence of all three shows. One for sure would be shut down within a couple of years. So, yes, Universal Epic screams for mor indoor attractions. No doubt it was a serious management miscalculation to underrepresent indoor attractions at Epic in lieu of Orlando's past weather and that weather is getting even worse/hotter, if that's even possible. Epic appears to have daily capacity issues, that are highlighted with hot/rainy/extreme weather. So something needs to be done soon. Any new rides, short of inexpensive low capacity flats, are years away. It will be interesting to see how Universal tries to alleviate the capacity issue, but I still don't see them building a third large indoor show theater that they'd probably shut down after a few years, as is their universal M.O.....Keeping a watch here. And, the park does have a decent layout for parades.
 
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Parkscope Joe

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  • Sunday at 12:06 PM
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Mad Dog said:
I don't believe three large indoor shows can exist in a Universal park, and pull in enough attendance, for a Universal management that's always skittish about live entertainment shows, to guarantee continued existence of all three shows.
Click to expand...

They just opened two new shows.
 
UniversalRBLX

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  • Sunday at 12:31 PM
  • #1,210
DarkMetroid567 said:
I also could not at all tell wtf was going on in the billboard. Kinda worries me that this will be an issue for cars, it looks like this is visible from the 15?
Click to expand...

simon said:
I disagree with the assumption that large scale theater productions are impractical or undesirable in today’s theme park landscape. While operational concerns such as staffing, space, and guest behavior are real, they are not insurmountable and more importantly, they overlook the evolving expectations of modern parkgoers. Epic Universe is being positioned as a next-generation theme park. Limiting its potential based on outdated assumptions about show length or guest patience undercuts the very ambition that defines the project.

First, dismissing the 40k sq ft soundstage as insufficient is shortsighted. With intelligent design and vertical space optimization, a three floor theater seating 1,500–2,000 guests is entirely feasible within that footprint. Beijing’s Majestic Theater proves that Universal can build and operate a high-capacity show venue successfully even in a market with logistical challenges. Also, the argument that Orlando lacks acting talent is reductive. Orlando is home to one of the largest entertainment-based economies in the U.S., supported by a robust pipeline from theme parks, cruise lines, and regional theater circuits. With the right contracts and visibility, Epic could attract performers nationally. Talent scarcity is a solvable problem, not a creative limitation.(I mean current telants on existing show in epic and bourne are already good enough for a theme park. I haven’t seen much of negative reviews cause of their acting). Guest are typically doesn’t have a expectation to see LA or New York standards of professional performer in a florida themepark.

And suggesting that guests won’t sit through longer shows is contradicted by the enduring success of 20+ min attractions like Festival of the Lion King, Aladdin and even Bourne Stuntacular. What guests reject is low effort filler, not a high quality spectacle. A Broadway scale show, especially with an original Universal IP or adaptation like Wicked, would provide tremendous value and likely become one of the park's defining experiences. Finally, the idea that people “won’t line up” for a theater show ignores guest behavior entirely. Visitors lined up for quite long time for Fantasmic, Hyperion. Also, the capacity of two shows in Epic is always full and it's highly demanding. Because they offered something unique, memorable, and communal. A theater of this scale would not only help manage capacity but also serve as a signature offering that elevates Celestial Park’s identity from “hub” to “destination.”

I can make a simplified answer on the statement about cutting down their staged shows: Disney has been cutting down their staged shows, because they're being CHEAP and they've been cutting tons of entertainment offerings and park services since 2021. Not because guests walk out during long shows mainly and I'm not sure most of the guests like their current direction.

If Epic Universe is going to compete globally, it must think bigger, not retreat to operational conservatism. A worldclass theme park isn’t built on excuses. It’s built on bold ideas done well, and a full scale, permanent theater show can be exactly that.

About your last comment, I'm not sure which season you went but Aladdin show in Hyperion usually operated daily, with four showtimes per day. Mostly at full capacity. The Hyperion show was often enough to prove the show's popularity and operational success. Universal could absolutely replicate this kind of performance model at Epic Universe with the right creative and logistical approach. I mean, as I said again, they already have a severe capacity issue and there aren't many attractions to cover the intended park's capacity (most of the rides besides Unchained have 70+ lines typically, it's Epic Universe's biggest complaints on guest experience). They need high high-capacity crowd eater soon as possible.
Click to expand...
Well said.

Especially the portion of low effort filler that the parks end up creating to satisfy short-term gaps in their attraction line up (e.g. what Disney did this year with Villains & Mermaid). FYI - Both are nice additions, but they're obviously a stop gap until WDW can produce significant capital investments.

OrlandoGuy said:
What I think everybody’s missing here is that all the arguments FOR a huge, long, elaborate show were probably already considered by Universal…back when they built the Sinbad and Toon Lagoon theaters. Look where those are now.
Click to expand...
Both shows originally intended for these venues were not great. Toon Lagoon's theater never hosted a great show and all of the IPs utilized were outdated already as Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network dominated children's' programming. Sinbad had a great budget and effects, but those two things don't automatically produce great shows that resonate with guests.
 
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Mad Dog

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  • Sunday at 12:41 PM
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Parkscope Joe said:
They just opened two new shows.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Two new shows, one already pre tested in Beijing. But that's the max I see being able to maintain full large theaters with Universal's demographics and Universal's past willingness to shut down shows that don't maintain maximum capacity.....Disney has a demographic more comfortable with live entertainment plus a much more voluminous IP to choose from.
 
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Mike S

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Don’t mind me, I’m just posting this random image and article promoting a Godzilla ride coming to Japan. No intentions here at all. *whistles*
IMG_1360.jpeg
godzilla.com

GODZILLA THE RIDE: GREAT CLASH Reveals New Mechagodzilla, August 1 Ope

GODZILLA THE RIDE: GREAT CLASH, directed by Takashi Yamazaki, will include a new Mechagodzilla. The ride opens August 1, 2025 at Seibuen Amusement Park in Japan
godzilla.com godzilla.com
 
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Parkscope Joe

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  • Wednesday at 9:22 AM
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Mad Dog said:
Exactly. Two new shows, one already pre tested in Beijing. But that's the max I see being able to maintain full large theaters with Universal's demographics and Universal's past willingness to shut down shows that don't maintain maximum capacity.....Disney has a demographic more comfortable with live entertainment plus a much more voluminous IP to choose from.
Click to expand...

And before that they opened Bourne making it three shows in USF. I don’t think there is some major line in the sand for them like you’re implying, just seeing what guests want and responding to it.
 
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simon

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Mike S said:
Don’t mind me, I’m just posting this random image and article promoting a Godzilla ride coming to Japan. No intentions here at all. *whistles*
View attachment 27201
godzilla.com

GODZILLA THE RIDE: GREAT CLASH Reveals New Mechagodzilla, August 1 Ope

GODZILLA THE RIDE: GREAT CLASH, directed by Takashi Yamazaki, will include a new Mechagodzilla. The ride opens August 1, 2025 at Seibuen Amusement Park in Japan
godzilla.com godzilla.com
Click to expand...
Btw Lotte World in Korea is also making 55 million dollar dark ride called Godzilla vs Kong as well. Opening this winter.
 
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Mad Dog

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  • Wednesday at 9:47 AM
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Parkscope Joe said:
And before that they opened Bourne making it three shows in USF. I don’t think there is some major line in the sand for them like you’re implying, just seeing what guests want and responding to it.
Click to expand...
I agree there's no line in the sand. But they get a bit shy on the 'large theaters' if they don't produce capacity crowds. The three largest theaters are still empty, for a long time, except for the one during HHN. And they don't have the kind of IP, and guest demographics, like WDW Disney, that just about guarantee successful theater crowds. I don't see three 'large' indoor venues being successful in Epic. A smaller theater like Horrors (USF) might work, but they need some big number attractions to calm down those long lines just about everywhere in Epic. I'm guessing the daily crowds are in the vicinity of 25,000, looking at the ticket type bookings Thrill can locate and the number they can't access. What happens if they start selling 35,000 a day? Like the lines will be a Wow factor. .....What do you think they should do to fix the capacity issues now, not three years down the line? I'm really clueless, short of parades ,longer park opening times, & street shows, on what Universal can do in the near future. It'll be interesting to watch. But I'm certainly not going to attend Epic more than a day if these stand by lines times continue. And, once the newness wears off, local repeat guests might dwindle because of the long lines. Heck, I love IOA & USF & CityWalk, and the hotel resort bars/restaurants.. I'll just hang there for my vacations....I go to theme parks to have fun, not to be aggravated with nightmare long lines. The main reason I never go to the parks during Dec. holidays/Easter/Presidents Day weekend/Columbus Day weekend/Memorial Day weekend.
 
Last edited: Wednesday at 10:24 AM
L

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Also there might be a diminishing returns on "theater" shows. Unlike rides which people don't mind riding over and over and not get bored. A theater type show will probably only get one visit per customer for the life of the show. That doesn't mean the shows are bad. I saw and enjoyed the Untrainable Dragon show. But I don't see myself going and watching it again (at least by myself). But I will back to back ride Monsters in a heartbeat.
 
UniversalRBLX

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Loki said:
Also there might be a diminishing returns on "theater" shows. Unlike rides which people don't mind riding over and over and not get bored. A theater type show will probably only get one visit per customer for the life of the show. That doesn't mean the shows are bad. I saw and enjoyed the Untrainable Dragon show. But I don't see myself going and watching it again (at least by myself). But I will back to back ride Monsters in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...
I disagree - your logic applies to traditional rides as well. A great theme park show will demand repeat visitation.... look at Horror Makeup, Fantasmic, Festival of the Lion King, etc.
 
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UniversalRBLX said:
I disagree - your logic applies to traditional rides as well. A great theme park show will demand repeat visitation.... look at Horror Makeup, Fantasmic, Festival of the Lion King, etc.
Click to expand...
You might be right. It probably has to do with the fact I have a very good memory. So I only have to see something once to have it seared into my brain. Which makes it hard to watch movies more than once (very good movies are the exception) without my head speeding through the whole thing and making it feel like I have already watched it again.

On the other hand traditional rides are more tactile and physical. Like that first drop in Pirates of the Caribbean. I know it's there, but it almost always comes as a surprise.
 
Mad Dog

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We'' watch the Disney live shows numerous times on a vacation, even though we've seen them many times before. Universal Orlando does good street shows and 'small' theater shows well,, but prior to the two Epic shows, there were not many shows in the 'large theaters', short of Terminator and Bourne that were very good.
 
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