Epic Universe Expansion Speculation

[saint.piss]

A high up person at universal just hinted at Super Nintendo world getting the first expansion and all they said is that it’ll be something “nostalgic and indoors” and that’s it’s coming sooner rather than later

Indoor land at epic... sounds like a dream

 

[Mike S]

A high up person at universal just hinted at Super Nintendo world getting the first expansion and all they said is that it’ll be something “nostalgic and indoors” and that’s it’s coming sooner rather than later

The way you’re stating this makes it sound like a public statement. Do you have a link?

 

[Wesker69]

The way you’re stating this makes it sound like a public statement. Do you have a link?

Probably only the words of the Celestial Dippin Dots & Cacao Churro stand guy

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

Indoor land at epic... sounds like a dream

Luigi’s Mansion with a themed ceiling a la Ministry or KFP in Japan. Can keep it spooky and dark all day long to lineup with the environment of the games. This is fully my prediction.

 

[OrlLover]

A high up person at universal just hinted at Super Nintendo world getting the first expansion and all they said is that it’ll be something “nostalgic and indoors” and that’s it’s coming sooner rather than later

Which goes back to the original rumor of Luigi’s Mansion being the first expansion for Epic.

 

[Sithina]

Which goes back to the original rumor of Luigi’s Mansion being the first expansion for Epic.

Even after many years of speculation & rumors (not just in the theme park fandom, but in the general Nintendo fandom), this has always been the most logical expansion path for SNW in my opinion. The LM games have stellar theming and world building, and Luigi is Mario's brother. Their images and worlds are intertwined forever.

Neither Pokemon nor LoZ really fit with Mario--they make much more sense in the other parks (and their own lands). And I say this as a huge fan of both LoZ and Pokemon who really wants to see lands themed to those two IPs somewhere in UOR--sooner rather than later, lol.

Pokemon has the aesthetic but not the same energy. It's also a very modern-feeling IP, not so much a "fantasy"--the different lands that each main Pokemon game take place in all have small towns, wild areas, and a large, modern city. They've always been themed to and inspired by real countries and cities. The Pokemon universe is entirely separate from the Mushroom Kingdom universe (which I count DK as part of, given DK was terrorizing Mario back when Mario was only known as "Jumpman" and the SMB universe didn't exist; he predates Bowser).

Legend of Zelda only has three titles that have a similar aesthetic to Mario--Wind Waker, Link's Awakening, and Echoes of Wisdom. While Wind Waker is very popular in the fandom, when Nintendo fans talk about an immersive theme park land based in Hyrule, they aren't talking about WW or LA. They're talking about "mature" Hyrule--a very obvious Hyrule Castle, Ganondorf (in whatever form he takes) as the big bad, and Link/Epona adventuring across the land while trying to help Zelda. Those are the "classic" LoZ themes and images that stick with fans, and that's what they want to see in a theme-park version of Hyrule.

That vision of Hyrule (including Twilight Princess, the game the stained glass windows are inspired by) absolutely does not mesh thematically at all with the current SNW/Mario theming. And Link has never been in a SMB title (Smash Bros and Mario Kart don't count in these conversations), so he has no natural relevance to the world that Nintendo/Universal can tie him to, other than being another popular Nintendo IP. Also, Hyrule is grand enough and LoZ beloved enough to deserve its own, separate land--as with Pokemon.

For theme park goes/entusiasts, "crossing themes" doesn't seem like a big deal, especially when they just really want more Nintendo lands to play in. But for Nintendo? Those clear rules are very important to each IP--and to Nintendo as a larger brand and company.

In his most recent english-language interview at the grand opening of Epic, Miyamoto told the interviewer that Nintendo views their "worlds" as individual experiences (he says a lot more, but that's the gist). So, per Nintendo, Mario & friends stay in Mario-related worlds; Pokemon stays in Pokemon; LoZ stays in LoZ; Metroid stays in Metroid, etc.

The only IP that doesn't follow those rules is Pikmin, because Pikmin exist everywhere. That's why there are Pikmin hidden all over Epic waiting for guests to discover. In the world Nintendo has created for Pikman, it makes sense that you'd find a Pikmin in a corner of Berk, or Celestial Park, or Dark Universe (I think the only place you won't find them is HP, for obvious reasons), because Pikmin pop up everywhere. It's part of their core worldbuilding.

So, yeah, TL;DR--Luigi's Mansion was always going to be the expansion, because Luigi is part of the larger Mario world. He makes sense there, and can be given a fully themed mini-area that flows effortlessly from SMB. Luigi will stay with Mario and in the Mushroom Kingdom and that's what fans (and Nintendo) want.

(ETA: this all might be irrelevant in parks outside of UOR, where space might be an issue; I'm talking specifically about the UO resort and Nintendo IPs coming to each of their three parks. There's no reason to cram everything together in one land in Orlando--they have the ample space and parks to play in.)

Other than theming an experience around the recent Peach-starring game, "Princess Peach Showtime", Luigi is the next most obvious fit, and the Mansion games are perfect for a dark ride/fully-enclosed mini-land area.

Oh, and Polterpup merch will absolutely sell like gangbusters in this park. He's adorable.

 

[Wesker69]

Oh, and Polterpup merch will absolutely sell like gangbusters in this park. He's adorable.

I NEED IT! I'll take 5! In plush form.
Also a popcorn bucket.

 

[Mike S]

Even after many years of speculation & rumors (not just in the theme park fandom, but in the general Nintendo fandom), this has always been the most logical expansion path for SNW in my opinion. The LM games have stellar theming and world building, and Luigi is Mario's brother. Their images and worlds are intertwined forever.

Neither Pokemon nor LoZ really fit with Mario--they make much more sense in the other parks (and their own lands). And I say this as a huge fan of both LoZ and Pokemon who really wants to see lands themed to those two IPs somewhere in UOR--sooner rather than later, lol.

Pokemon has the aesthetic but not the same energy. It's also a very modern-feeling IP, not so much a "fantasy"--the different lands that each main Pokemon game take place in all have small towns, wild areas, and a large, modern city. They've always been themed to and inspired by real countries and cities. The Pokemon universe is entirely separate from the Mushroom Kingdom universe (which I count DK as part of, given DK was terrorizing Mario back when Mario was only known as "Jumpman" and the SMB universe didn't exist; he predates Bowser).

Legend of Zelda only has three titles that have a similar aesthetic to Mario--Wind Waker, Link's Awakening, and Echoes of Wisdom. While Wind Waker is very popular in the fandom, when Nintendo fans talk about an immersive theme park land based in Hyrule, they aren't talking about WW or LA. They're talking about "mature" Hyrule--a very obvious Hyrule Castle, Ganondorf (in whatever form he takes) as the big bad, and Link/Epona adventuring across the land while trying to help Zelda. Those are the "classic" LoZ themes and images that stick with fans, and that's what they want to see in a theme-park version of Hyrule.

That vision of Hyrule (including Twilight Princess, the game the stained glass windows are inspired by) absolutely does not mesh thematically at all with the current SNW/Mario theming. And Link has never been in a SMB title (Smash Bros and Mario Kart don't count in these conversations), so he has no natural relevance to the world that Nintendo/Universal can tie him to, other than being another popular Nintendo IP. Also, Hyrule is grand enough and LoZ beloved enough to deserve its own, separate land--as with Pokemon.

For theme park goes/entusiasts, "crossing themes" doesn't seem like a big deal, especially when they just really want more Nintendo lands to play in. But for Nintendo? Those clear rules are very important to each IP--and to Nintendo as a larger brand and company.

In his most recent english-language interview at the grand opening of Epic, Miyamoto told the interviewer that Nintendo views their "worlds" as individual experiences (he says a lot more, but that's the gist). So, per Nintendo, Mario & friends stay in Mario-related worlds; Pokemon stays in Pokemon; LoZ stays in LoZ; Metroid stays in Metroid, etc.

The only IP that doesn't follow those rules is Pikmin, because Pikmin exist everywhere. That's why there are Pikmin hidden all over Epic waiting for guests to discover. In the world Nintendo has created for Pikman, it makes sense that you'd find a Pikmin in a corner of Berk, or Celestial Park, or Dark Universe (I think the only place you won't find them is HP, for obvious reasons), because Pikmin pop up everywhere. It's part of their core worldbuilding.

So, yeah, TL;DR--Luigi's Mansion was always going to be the expansion, because Luigi is part of the larger Mario world. He makes sense there, and can be given a fully themed mini-area that flows effortlessly from SMB. Luigi will stay with Mario and in the Mushroom Kingdom and that's what fans (and Nintendo) want.

(ETA: this all might be irrelevant in parks outside of UOR, where space might be an issue; I'm talking specifically about the UO resort and Nintendo IPs coming to each of their three parks. There's no reason to cram everything together in one land in Orlando--they have the ample space and parks to play in.)

Other than theming an experience around the recent Peach-starring game, "Princess Peach Showtime", Luigi is the next most obvious fit, and the Mansion games are perfect for a dark ride/fully-enclosed mini-land area.

Oh, and Polterpup merch will absolutely sell like gangbusters in this park. He's adorable.

Zelda would likely have its own portal though. Also I’ve seen nothing suggesting Pikmin are all over the park, just SNW and the Nintendo store in Celestial.

Speaking of a Zelda portal, I think we all know what the top contenders for the phrase would be:

“It’s dangerous to go alone, take this!”

Or

“It’s a secret to everybody.”

 

[JonsMovies]

It just seems like such an obvious slam dunk move for UOR to follow the Wizarding World approach by putting Zelda in IOA, Pokemon in USF and LM at Epic. Hopefully with the success of the lands in Japan, Hollywood and now Orlando, these 3 projects finally get the greenlight.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

It just seems like such an obvious slam dunk move for UOR to follow the Wizarding World approach by putting Zelda in IOA, Pokemon in USF and LM at Epic. Hopefully with the success of the lands in Japan, Hollywood and now Orlando, these 3 projects finally get the greenlight.

Putting Pokemon at USF will be the savior of USF. As much as I'd love for USF to lean on older more legacy-based projects, USF needs Pokemon as a marketing tool.

A high up person at universal just hinted at Super Nintendo world getting the first expansion and all they said is that it’ll be something “nostalgic and indoors” and that’s it’s coming sooner rather than later

Even just a small Nintendo arcade/interactive exhibit will help crowds keep cool/dry in the summer.

 

[Mike S]

It just seems like such an obvious slam dunk move for UOR to follow the Wizarding World approach by putting Zelda in IOA, Pokemon in USF and LM at Epic. Hopefully with the success of the lands in Japan, Hollywood and now Orlando, these 3 projects finally get the greenlight.

The Nintendo expansion pad is big enough for both. Maybe one of the reasons they couldn’t get moving on Lost Continent was because they couldn’t come up with a decent way to use all the land for just Zelda.

Zelda may be Nintendo’s third biggest franchise but it’s also still very far from Mario which is the second (Pokémon is first). Maybe combining it with Luigi’s Mansion is a viable solution to them.

I’d have the portal lead you to Hyrule. The Lost Woods would be near the back and has an entrance to a small indoor Luigi’s Mansion area (think Epcot’s Mexico pavilion but not nearly as much retail/dining) and then if possible Luigi also connects to Donkey Kong.

 

[Mad Dog]

No construction on anything yet, so it's doubtful any D/E ticket new land or attraction will be ready until 2027-2028, even if they start soon. That Transformer 1 year construction thing will probably never happen again.

 

[belloq87]

No construction on anything yet, so it's doubtful any D/E ticket new land or attraction will be ready until 2027-2028, even if they start soon.

I'm hoping those are years for USF stuff.

 

[Sithina]

Zelda would likely have its own portal though. Also I’ve seen nothing suggesting Pikmin are all over the park, just SNW and the Nintendo store in Celestial.

Hmm.. Looking back over the IGN interview, I did misinterpret Miyamoto's statement (no thanks to IGN, who have horrible interview editors--if they have any more editors at all at this point) that it was in more lands than SNW/DK (I consider that the same land, so it's odd the way it was phrased in the interview. Again, I blame IGN, and my own interpretation, not Miyamoto's interpreters [who are fantastic]). My bad and thanks for the correction.

For anyone wanting the link to this interview, which includes more conversation with Miyamoto about Nintendo IPs (he considers Nintendo a talent agency), SNW's creation, and some NS2 stuff (which he wasn't supposed to talk about but did anyway, because Miyamoto-san does what he wants at this point in his legendary career), you can read it at this link.

There was quite a bit of new information in the interview--it was more off-the-cuff than Miyamoto usually is at press events--so that was nice to read.

(Minor related Tangent incoming)

I'll give credit to IGN, here, even as I blast them on the regular: they were one of the only media teams that even interviewed Miyamoto; that Universal's red carpet person/team didn't know to speak directly to this legend was a massive failure (that awkward pause was a sign of the failure on the producers' parts--every red carpet interviewer has a small team with them to coordinate interviews, and a producer not arranging for Miyamoto to be interviewed is absolutely dropping the ball/mic). Miyamoto even had had his interpreter there, and contrary to social media fanlore, he's always said he's happy to be interviewed at events like this, because he greatly respects his duty as the face of global Nintendo. He might not like the attention on himself instead of his IPs, but he's gracious about it.

Anyway, TL;DR, you shouldn't be on or directing a red carpet unless you know everyone of any great importance (not just the most popular, current social media darlings) who is going to be walking it, and how to approach their teams (if necessary) for interview time. And Miyamoto is far more important to the design of one of these lands than some random WWE couple who talked about HHN (which has nothing to do with Epic) for most of their interview. Not that it wasn't a nice moment, but HHN is not at Epic, and the red carpet interviewer should have kept his questions on target (Dark Universe, specifically, if that's what they were primarily there for). There were many odd interview moments on the red carpet. I can only assume this was a brand new, very young team, who were chosen more for social media interest than red carpet experience.

Now, back to the speculation!

 

[HHN Maddux]

The way you’re stating this makes it sound like a public statement. Do you have a link?

Still waiting on this.

 

[Sithina]

Still waiting on this.

I know co-workers talk when/where they shouldn't, but I assume TMs are told/expected to remain quiet about the big things, especially when they're years out from happening. 2027/28 seems about right for a new large experience, if it's happening "sooner rather than later"--but "sooner rather than later" is vague enough that it could just be TMs bs-ing with each other and/or trolling eager thoosie guests about "future content" that may or may not be 5+ years down the road.

I'm interested to see a source, too. It just seems very early to be anything but "blue sky" concepts. Maybe the "Epic Ride" 3-part series in July will have something for us, but I still wouldn't expect it for at least two years. Transformers was an insane turnaround build only because they'd built that ride twice before. Two years seems doable, though with a totally immersive park like Epic, three years seems like a safer bet for a mini-land.

On our last trip, we met many TMs (sometimes even working side by side) who had entirely different (often wrong) information about current park happenings, let alone what might be coming later.

 

[Mad Dog]

I know co-workers talk when/where they shouldn't, but I assume TMs are told/expected to remain quiet about the big things, especially when they're years out from happening. 2027/28 seems about right for a new large experience, if it's happening "sooner rather than later"--but "sooner rather than later" is vague enough that it could just be TMs bs-ing with each other and/or trolling eager thoosie guests about "future content" that may or may not be 5+ years down the road.

I'm interested to see a source, too. It just seems very early to be anything but "blue sky" concepts. Maybe the "Epic Ride" 3-part series in July will have something for us, but I still wouldn't expect it for at least two years. Transformers was an insane turnaround build only because they'd built that ride twice before. Two years seems doable, though with a totally immersive park like Epic, three years seems like a safer bet for a mini-land.

On our last trip, we met many TMs (sometimes even working side by side) who had entirely different (often wrong) information about current park happenings, let alone what might be coming later.

Yes, I doubt many TM's have any idea what's in the future. They're kind of kept in the dark on that stuff. Heck, most of them don't even know if the USF lagoon show is running that night or not.

 

[RFRees]

This might be a bit unconventional but I think it could make sense... I would add mini golf as a quick and cheap way of adding 'more capacity' to Epic. Endless possibilities for the theme including Celestials and Captain Cacao, or Universal / third party IPs. I'd make admission to one course free with park ticket, with several course options (2 minimum).

Some positives:

• Could open 2026. Relatively low cost and easily replaced when the land is needed five or ten years from now. Props could be reused.
• Great way of using under utilized characters, like Captain Cacao or Earl The Squirrel.
• Variable pricing: while a park ticket gets you one play through, they could sell park guests additional plays. Also possible upcharge experience if they do "Open HUB" or free with hotel guests, etc.

If I had their checkbook, I'd purchase new tents they've used for HHN and make these indoor/air conditioned, meaning this would be another reprieve from hot or rainy weather. The tents could also be reused elsewhere (or sold) if or when the mini golf is replaced. They could place these in any expansion space they don't plan to use for another five to ten years, including a small section of the expansion space between Stardust and Potter.

For theme, I would go with Creature From the Black Lagoon for Course 1 and Captain Cacao for Course 2. I'd add a seasonal Course 3, which would rotate between seasons and include Earl The Squirrel for Christmas.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

This might be a bit unconventional but I think it could make sense... I would add mini golf as a quick and cheap way of adding 'more capacity' to Epic. Endless possibilities for the theme including Celestials and Captain Cacao, or Universal / third party IPs. I'd make admission to one course free with park ticket, with several course options (2 minimum).

Some positives:

• Could open 2026. Relatively low cost and easily replaced when the land is needed five or ten years from now. Props could be reused.
• Great way of using under utilized characters, like Captain Cacao or Earl The Squirrel.
• Variable pricing: while a park ticket gets you one play through, they could sell park guests additional plays. Also possible upcharge experience if they do "Open HUB" or free with hotel guests, etc.

If I had their checkbook, I'd purchase new tents they've used for HHN and make these indoor/air conditioned, meaning this would be another reprieve from hot or rainy weather. The tents could also be reused elsewhere (or sold) if or when the mini golf is replaced. They could place these in any expansion space they don't plan to use for another five to ten years, including a small section of the expansion space between Stardust and Potter.

For theme, I would go with Creature From the Black Lagoon for Course 1 and Captain Cacao for Course 2. I'd add a seasonal Course 3, which would rotate between seasons and include Earl The Squirrel for Christmas.

I love the idea for outside the park, or at one of the hotels, but mini golf has too low capacity for a major theme park that sees thousands of guests a day.

 

[RFRees]

I love the idea for outside the park, or at one of the hotels, but mini golf has too low capacity for a major theme park that sees thousands of guests a day.

I agree that this would not add the capacity of a major E-ticket attraction. This would be in the range of 80-100 people per hour per course, with three courses being 240-300 people per hour, so roughly 3,000 per day. If we're looking at a park capacity of 30k, that would be about 1 in 10 guests taking part in the mini golf attraction.

If I were to guess, that's more than the Toothless Meet and Greet (which I'm guessing is roughly 100-200 guests per hour). I'd guess this might also be on the level with Horror Makeup Show, the DreamWorks Dance Party, or Pteranodon Flyers.

But also factor in that each person would eat up 30 minutes of their day inside a 9 hole course, compared to a few minutes of their day on another attraction. (Not including queue.)

The idea that this would be inside the park instead of at a hotel is the "unconventional" part I mentioned. I've also recommended a semi permanent Scare-Zone to be added in the expansion pad behind Monsters. The aim of these is to add some quick 'things to do' at Epic to make the park feel a bit fuller (not that I personally have the issue of being bored when I'm at Epic!), and specifically be low cost and easily replaced.

Note: I found different throughput stats for mini golf in my research, with some as low as 40 per hour to as high as 180 per hour. But most frequently I saw 100 per hour for 9 hole mini golf.