Epic Universe Expansion Speculation

[belloq87]

It's not like they created Fallon and F&F and expected the reaction it got.

I could have warned them well in advance, but they didn't take my calls!

 

[Legacy]

This. The addition of Epic doesn't mean the other isn't happening. It's just not happening now.

And what's going into Epic, as it's presented now, wouldn't go into any of the current parks (outside of SNW). The size and scope wouldn't be the same simply because of the lack of size.

I completely get the argument against a new park and actually agree to an extent, but this is vital in understanding the opportunities it actually presents. Apart from SNW in KidZone, the only attractions that would have been considered for the current parks are Monsters Unchained, Ministry of Magic, and the Dragon show. Without Epic, you WOULDN’T be getting Darkmoor, the Werewolf coaster or the Creature boat, Circus Arcana, every ride in Berk AND every ride in Celestial Gardens. The new park gives us way more than would be possible otherwise.

It’s the same argument when looking at Jurassic Park as an anchor for Islands. If they HADN’T done that, we likely never get Velocicoaster.

 

[fryoj]

I'm glad we're getting Epic Universe, but I think it's perfectly valid to prefer IOA and USF (especially USF...) were made as good and fleshed-out as they could possibly be before entertaining the idea of another gate. I'm sympathetic to that idea, as the board's resident "Nintendo should have still gone into KidZone" advocate.

There are some people out there who argue that Disney-MGM Studios and (especially) Animal Kingdom should not have been built when they were (if at all); I think that's a crazy position, and I would not want to lose either of those parks, but I understand the theoretical logic that their expense prevented some of the existing parks from reaching more full maturation.

If Nintendo went to KZ, there'd be no potential for a major dark ride with practical effects there.

 

[belloq87]

I completely get the argument against a new park and actually agree to an extent, but this is vital in understanding the opportunities it actually presents. Apart from SNW in KidZone, the only attractions that would have been considered for the current parks are Monsters Unchained, Ministry of Magic, and the Dragon show.

Counterpoint: those are the attractions I'm most interested in anyway!

(Again, I'm glad Epic is happening.)

If Nintendo went to KZ, there'd be no potential for a major dark ride with practical effects there.

Joke taken, but the park would have also received an outdoor omnimover-type and an elaborately-themed family coaster. Plus Mario Kart. All at once.

 

[Brian G.]

Counterpoint: those are the attractions I'm most interested in anyway!

(Again, I'm glad Epic is happening.)


Joke taken, but the park would have also received an outdoor omnimover-type and an elaborately-themed family coaster. Plus Mario Kart. All at once.

Id still add that those attractions would arrive in a much different form. (And I actually don’t think Ministry could’ve fit as it’s presented. Those buildings are BIG.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Very excited for Epic, but I admit I was originally one of those years back that would have preferred USF/IOA to be built out versus a whole new park, at least this soon. Purchasing the land was a great choice as UOR needed the hotel capacity. I thought initially we'd see several hotels open up prior to construction of a 3rd gate.

Not to turn this into a Blue Sky session, but played around a bit and I do think everything (or mostly everything) at Epic Universe could have found a way to USF or IOA.

Spoiler: EU at USF & IOA

Celestial Park - could have been used to give USF a new proper entrance with more greenery, better facades, etc.

• Constellation Carousel - a new flat ride either at the front of the park or for Minions Land
• Starfall Racers - Rip Ride Rockit replacement (obviously not a 1:1 replacement, but the funds are there)

Super Nintendo World - in Kidzone/DreamWorks, same as initially planned

Universal Monsters - Lost Continent replacement

• Unchained takes places over Poseidon's Fury and partially the Sinbad Theater
• Werewolf Coaster won't fit in it's current layout, but can be easily modified and placed the station in Sinbad

WWOHP Ministry of Magic - this theoretically would allow them to just expand London entirely instead of confusion of the Paris-based land

• Circus Arcanus in a new theater at FFL
• Ministry of Magic at Men In Black (Sorry), and extended a bit into the backstage area

How To Train Your Dragon - replaces Toon Lagoon, obviously would require major retheming, but it's doable

• Untrainable Dragon fits at the TL Theater (the new building at Epic fits in the land, can redo the theater entirely if they wished
• Mead Hall at Comic Strip Cafe

Missing EU Items

• 2 Sky Fly Flats for HTTD - not a 1:1 replacement, but 2 Flat rides (maybe 3 depending on size) could have been added to the Music Plaza stage as part of a proper Minion Land/Super Silly Fun Land.
• HTTYD Boat Ride
• HTTYD Coaster - resources could be utilized for a Grinch coaster at the Seuss expansion pad

All of this still doesn't touch the outdated or empty holes throughout the current parks:

• Fast & Furious
• Simpsons/Animal Actors
• USF's massive expansion pad
• Skull Island (not a fan of the ride, but I wished we got more proper theming throughout this mini land)
• Villain-Con (sorry)

Mind you, strategically Epic is a better choice, but I'd prefer skipping between 2 parks filled with stuff to the brim.

 

[Alicia]

Id still add that those attractions would arrive in a much different form. (And I actually don’t think Ministry could’ve fit as it’s presented. Those buildings are BIG.

As far as I know the version of the Ministry being designed for Fear Factor plot would not have the floo entry hall or massive atrium. Instead the atrium would’ve been represented as a screen-based scene on a much smaller scale trackless dark ride.

 

[Blue]

I still think Ministry should've ended up at USF, even if it would've been a slightly less ambitious version. Every other land brings something new to the resort. This is just going to be Diagon Alley 2.0... I'm sure it will be great, but it would've been nice to see something completely different there instead.

 

[DodgsonHere]

I’d much rather get the best version of every project at Epic than have them squeezed in at USF and IoA. It’s not like Epic prevents any further additions to those parks, in reality it just gives Universal even more room to build from the ground up instead of replacing classics which is something MANY have complained about for decades. We’re living out the best case scenario.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

It’s not like Epic prevents any further additions to those parks

Being pessimistic, but this is unfortunately what happened at WDW when they expanded to 4 parks. It resulted in investments being spread thin across 4 parks, resulting in lack of investment for years. Not saying UOR is following the same mindset, but it's a realistic concern.

 

[DodgsonHere]

Being pessimistic, but this is unfortunately what happened at WDW when they expanded to 4 parks. It resulted in investments being spread thin across 4 parks, resulting in lack of investment for years. Not saying UOR is following the same mindset, but it's a realistic concern.

Disney severely underbuilt DHS and DAK from the beginning and have been trying to play catch up with those parks ever since. Epic will be more flush with things to do from the start. Not that this totally prevents investment from being spread thin, but none of the UOR parks themselves should feel lacking in number of things to do as drastically as DHS and DAK.

 

[Brian G.]

I hope we also take a breather and realize while there are areas that could use some help in IOA (TL Theater and LC) - it's in damn good shape, and we know USF is on the docket next with the rumors circling the areas of "concern".

 

[TheUniC6]

I hope we also take a breather and realize while there are areas that could use some help in IOA (TL Theater and LC) - it's in damn good shape, and we know USF is on the docket next with the rumors circling the areas of "concern".

I'm hoping they get the HRRR F&F replacement and Pokemon completed before 2030. While Pokemon is rumored for 2030 as of now, I am hoping that Universal is taking a wait and see approach to see how much USF attendance craters to determine if USF takes a higher priority over EU's first expansion (Luigi's mansion mini land)

Universal also could have their cake and eat it to as well. They are far more diligent than Disney for construction timelines and if they put their mind to it they could do a rollout that follows:

2025: EU opens

2026: F&F HRRR replacement debuts

2027: Luigi's Mansion mini land expansion for EU

2028: Pokemon debuts replacing Simpsons.

 

[jarmor]

What puzzles me is that Universal been replacing the old and bringing in new attractions/rides so how can anyone look at that is being something they need to do when they are doing that? No way the amount of attractions, rides, restaurants and shops that we are getting with epic could have been shoehorned into the current 2 parks over time. What happen to adding capacity? That will never happen if you keep replacing over building new. We also talk about how the parks are not cohesive in theming but again, if we were to just tear down and replace with epic attractions, it would even get crazier and more convoluted.

 

[GAcoaster]

Yes, they could have put almost all of those Epic attractions into the existing two parks, but they would have been much more limited in scope and it would mean removing things already there. The net increases in park attendance would be minimal compared to adding a third park's capacity, and (most importantly) would not increase the length of stay for resort guests. Adding those things as an exciting new third park means suddenly there is a reason to stay at a Universal resort for a full week between three theme parks, a waterpark and Citywalk. If they built Super Nintendo World in Kid Zone, built Dark Universe as a replacement for Lost Continent, replaced Toon Lagoon with HTTYD, and expanded Wizarding World to take over more of USF they would have people still booking 3-4 days instead of 5-7 days. The hotels and resort guests are where the money is-- that's why Disney added so many.

Currently they have two parks with compbined attendance of ~20 million +/-. The bounce from adding more things to the parks they have probably would have been a bounce of an extra ~2 million guests for each new thing. Adding a third park will probably mean an attendance bounce of of ~8-10 million guests for the entire resort each year so now almost 30 million guests.

MOST guests don't see the problems with the existing parks that enthusiasts see. Yes, improvements can be made in USF and IOA, but they'll do just fine as they are in the mean time.

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

MOST guests don't see the problems with the existing parks that enthusiasts see. Yes, improvements can be made in USF and IOA, but they'll do just fine as they are in the mean time.

Certainly true for IOA and USF I think, but capacity problems and dead areas I think are more palpable in aggregate to even the non-enthusiasts visting, oh, I don't know, Disney's Animal Kingdom or Disney's Hollywood Studios.

 

[Disneyhead]

Ok here is what I think the naysayers think should have happened.

Ministry in FFL plot
Mario in KidZone

Pokémon in Epic.
LotR in Epic.
Monsters in Epic.
HTTYD in Epic.

Zelda in IOA

 

[Legacy]

Ok here is what I think the naysayers think should have happened.

Ministry in FFL plot
Mario in KidZone

Pokémon in Epic.
LotR in Epic.
Monsters in Epic.
HTTYD in Epic.

Zelda in IOA

Which… wouldn’t have happened if things went with original plans. It would have been…

SNW in KidZone
Ministry in FFL
Monsters replace MiB
Untrainable show in IoA (without additional rides). I don’t know which side of the park though? I think it would have replaced LC.

Zelda still likely goes into IoA.
Pokemon downsizes and replaces Simpsons.

Universal built IoA because they had one attraction that could headline a full land. With Epic, they actually had four. While I think maximizing the current parks is a viable strategy, it would drastically restrain options going forward. Now, they can still maximize what they have and create space for more.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

So the Battle of Ministry, as is right now, was going to go into FFL? Or a downsized version?

 

[Disneyhead]

So the Battle of Ministry, as is right now, was going to go into FFL? Or a downsized version?

Very downsized.

I would love to see a size comparison of Epic's MoM show building and Guardians' at Epcot. I would not be surprised if MoM is the largest show building in Orlando.