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Bringing Back Nostalgic Properties to Universal Parks?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ragerunner
  • Start date Start date Saturday at 5:57 PM
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DodgsonHere

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  • Yesterday at 10:44 AM
  • #41
SeventyOne said:
Can't help but notice this thread popped up the same weekend as The Great Muppet Meltdown.

Obviously the online fan community uproar over the closing of a dated "screenz" attraction and the worst QSR pizza in Orlando was about more than the Muppets. I posit that it's Millennials realizing the great pop culture freeze they grew up in -- which started in the mid-90s, lasted until probably 2020ish -- is finally fading. People in their 30s and 40s realizing that top 40 radio won't always be Taylor, JT and I-V-VI-IV songs, that the biggest movie of the year might not always feature Marvel superheroes, fashion might finally evolve from Starbucks barista chic, and that the theme park rides they can spiel by heart won't always be there. They've been in-tune with what's "cool" they're whole lives, and suddenly the kids are shouting "Chicken Jockey!" and for the first time they don't get it and it's so dumb and for the first time they feel their age. "I was hip and with it ... but they changed what 'it' is!"

So they cling to the IPs they spent their whole lives with, most of which they inherited from Gen X anyway. The Muppets. BTTF. Ghostbusters. Jaws. But these are only nostalgia plays right now. In 10 to 15 years, they'll be even more dated -- and its likely that era's teens and 20-somethings will be clamoring for something not even on our radar at the moment.

This is the danger of single-IP-themed lands. "The American Frontier" is generic enough to evolve into what each generation needs it to be; Far Far Away will be forever tied to a 90s movie very much of its day. The Magic Kingdom of 1991 looked very different from that of 1971. Universal Studios of 2025 has exactly 1 ride in common with 2003 Theme parks need the freedom to grow and change. And becoming a nostalgia museum impedes that.
Click to expand...
Argument falls apart when you realize Muppets is being rethemed to 2001’s Monsters Inc.
 
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belloq87

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  • Yesterday at 11:18 AM
  • #42
SeventyOne said:
I posit that it's Millennials realizing the great pop culture freeze they grew up in -- which started in the mid-90s, lasted until probably 2020ish -- is finally fading. People in their 30s and 40s realizing that top 40 radio won't always be Taylor, JT and I-V-VI-IV songs, that the biggest movie of the year might not always feature Marvel superheroes, fashion might finally evolve from Starbucks barista chic, and that the theme park rides they can spiel by heart won't always be there. They've been in-tune with what's "cool" they're whole lives, and suddenly the kids are shouting "Chicken Jockey!" and for the first time they don't get it and it's so dumb and for the first time they feel their age. "I was hip and with it ... but they changed what 'it' is!"
Click to expand...
I don't know that any psychoanalysis is really necessary. To me, it comes down to two things:

1. Some IP (not necessarily as-utilized in theme parks, but the parent property itself) is clearly evergreen.
2. I want to see as many things that I personally enjoy in theme parks as possible. That doesn't meant you can't create an attraction that I enjoy based on an IP that I don't (I don't like the SLOP movies at all, but I love the ride in Hollywood), but I think anyone who would say they don't want to see more of their favorite things in theme parks isn't really being honest. (Not saying you're saying that.)

SeventyOne said:
Obviously the online fan community uproar over the closing of a dated "screenz" attraction and the worst QSR pizza in Orlando was about more than the Muppets.

So they cling to the IPs they spent their whole lives with, most of which they inherited from Gen X anyway. The Muppets. BTTF. Ghostbusters. Jaws. But these are only nostalgia plays right now. In 10 to 15 years, they'll be even more dated -- and its likely that era's teens and 20-somethings will be clamoring for something not even on our radar at the moment.
Click to expand...
I disagree with the usage of "dated" as a pejorative in this context.

Would anybody really try to argue that Muppet*Vision isn't one of the very best (if not the best) 3D shows ever designed?

BTTF, GHOSTBUSTERS, and JAWS are beloved films. GB had a new movie just last year. JAWS is coming back to theaters in August in a wide release. BTTF recently spawned a musical. They all move merchandise.

My affection for those films may be subjective, but I think it's pretty objective that they're classics for a reason.

SeventyOne said:
Universal Studios of 2025 has exactly 1 ride in common with 2003
Click to expand...
And I don't think this has been a good thing for the park in any way.

A park should achieve a balance between "we will keep nothing" and "we will keep everything."
 
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UniversalRBLX

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  • Yesterday at 11:48 AM
  • #43
I don't think theme parks should be museums, but I also think they need to do a good job at figuring out what's not working out and prioritize replacements for those instead that are better.

I'm ok with them ripping out beloved attractions or areas if their replacement are worthwhile - Jaws to Diagon, Dueling Dragons to Hagrid, Ellen for Guardians, etc.

I'm not a fan of ripping out beloved attractions for mediocre experiences - Ghostbusters for Twister, Supercharged, BTTF for Simpsons, etc.

Universal has proven that building attractions based off the latest IP doesn't always work, Disney has proven that building attractions based off older IPs can still work.

As long as the experience is great, guests (and the revenue) will be attracted to it.
 
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Mad Dog

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  • Yesterday at 12:03 PM
  • #44
Most important factor: That the attraction is well done, entertaining, and fun. That transcends all the other stuff.
 
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Brian G.

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  • Yesterday at 12:18 PM
  • #45
UniversalRBLX said:
I'm not a fan of ripping out beloved attractions for mediocre experiences - Ghostbusters for Twister, Supercharged, BTTF for Simpsons, etc.
Click to expand...
The caveat, of course, is that this is all subjective.

Well, not for FF…
 
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OrlandoGuy

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  • Yesterday at 12:31 PM
  • #46
SeventyOne said:
Can't help but notice this thread popped up the same weekend as The Great Muppet Meltdown.

Obviously the online fan community uproar over the closing of a dated "screenz" attraction and the worst QSR pizza in Orlando was about more than the Muppets. I posit that it's Millennials realizing the great pop culture freeze they grew up in -- which started in the mid-90s, lasted until probably 2020ish -- is finally fading. People in their 30s and 40s realizing that top 40 radio won't always be Taylor, JT and I-V-VI-IV songs, that the biggest movie of the year might not always feature Marvel superheroes, fashion might finally evolve from Starbucks barista chic, and that the theme park rides they can spiel by heart won't always be there. They've been in-tune with what's "cool" they're whole lives, and suddenly the kids are shouting "Chicken Jockey!" and for the first time they don't get it and it's so dumb and for the first time they feel their age. "I was hip and with it ... but they changed what 'it' is!"

So they cling to the IPs they spent their whole lives with, most of which they inherited from Gen X anyway. The Muppets. BTTF. Ghostbusters. Jaws. But these are only nostalgia plays right now. In 10 to 15 years, they'll be even more dated -- and its likely that era's teens and 20-somethings will be clamoring for something not even on our radar at the moment.

This is the danger of single-IP-themed lands. "The American Frontier" is generic enough to evolve into what each generation needs it to be; Far Far Away will be forever tied to a 90s movie very much of its day. The Magic Kingdom of 1991 looked very different from that of 1971. Universal Studios of 2025 has exactly 1 ride in common with 2003 Theme parks need the freedom to grow and change. And becoming a nostalgia museum impedes that.
Click to expand...
I think this is really well-said and overall true, but in the context of this particular discussion is missing one thing—this generation doesn’t have anything else to replace it.

Continuing to refer to movies/TV (that’s what Universal was born from after all), the big pop culture moments of the last 10-15 years or so are borrowed from previous generations’ pop culture moments. The box office now is dominated by franchises that started decades ago (like Barbie and Super Mario). Even among “original content,” this generation got shafted…We didn’t get our own ET or Goonies…we got Stranger Things, which aped from those movies because that’s what that generation liked and didn’t have the creativity/confidence to bring to the modern day.

So while what you’re saying is true, there’s also a pretty legitimate argument against tearing this stuff out because we’ve been force fed nostalgia for so long in the form of remakes, retreads, and legacy sequels that that’s really all we have.
 
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Parkscope Joe

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  • Yesterday at 12:47 PM
  • #47
Legacy said:
There’s a concept called “generalization” where a quality is ascribed to an entire population that may not actually describe individuals within that population. There is also a concept called “self-awareness” where an individual (or group) understands and reflects on the components and traits of themselves.

The inability to imagine the implementation of ideas beyond a very narrow concept of what “works” (typically within the context of something they’ve already seen) is very prominent in Universal fans. I think that’s why so much of these conversations boil around the same handful of IPs. When a new potential IP is considered (like Bourne, or HTTYD, or WWE and Weeknd at HHN), fans (generalized) tend to struggle accepting the potential of something new. It’s an observation.
Click to expand...

To add on to this, UDX knows more about what the GP wants than us random posters on a forum. They have market research and survey data to support their decisions, as it's a results-based business, and they want to succeed. This observation isn't meant to shut down discussion, but instead, maybe we should be looking outside the box more.

GA-MBIT said:
But... Muppets aren't going away? That specific show is, but Disney has plans to add new and substantial Muppets, Indiana Jones, Marvel, classic Disney Villain themed attractions across the next five years. A lot of their recent lineup has been early to mid 2000s era Pixar films, niche Gen X properties like Tron, or huge generational touchstones like Star Wars and Marvel (which you point to as being on the way out. Maybe for the films, but Guardians in the parks seem to be doing just fine.)
Click to expand...

Disney is using Emperor's New Groove, a movie they tried to BURY, as a face of a Typhoon Lagoon event is indicative of this.
 
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rabbitsmoon

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  • Yesterday at 12:48 PM
  • #48
Going in on nostalgia specifically for USF makes a lot of sense, and if deployed right, can boost the value of what's already there. If they can highlight the idea that the park is largely about classic movies and entertainment, I think that helps rides like ET, MIB and Mummy age gracefully. It gives the audience the right framework and expectation for the type of experiences they can expect to have. Which hopefully makes them more forgiving or open to stuff that might have felt outdated to them otherwise.
 
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Lucky Planet

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  • Yesterday at 2:01 PM
  • #49
Parkscope Joe said:
To add on to this, UDX knows more about what the GP wants than us random posters on a forum. They have market research and survey data to support their decisions, as it's a results-based business, and they want to succeed. This observation isn't meant to shut down discussion, but instead, maybe we should be looking outside the box more.



Disney is using Emperor's New Groove, a movie they tried to BURY, as a face of a Typhoon Lagoon event is indicative of this.
Click to expand...
bury why
 
JohnHammondsCane

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  • Yesterday at 2:29 PM
  • #50
Parkscope Joe said:
To add on to this, UDX knows more about what the GP wants than us random posters on a forum. They have market research and survey data to support their decisions, as it's a results-based business, and they want to succeed.
Click to expand...

This is always the thing I forget about, tbh. Those of us on this board are the furthest extreme fans.

Most people may go 1-2 day(s) on their vacation and enjoy Transformers, Fast and Furious, Simpsons, etc., where a lot of us see many of these attractions as skippable.

This hit me with the MNSSHP announcement, with Hocus Pocus being the main show AGAIN, for what feels like the 5th straight year? Most families may go once in the lives to experience it.

I'll still complain about Hocus Pocus being overdone tho :p
 
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Mad Dog

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  • Yesterday at 3:50 PM
  • #51
The GP tastes are often complete opposites of what the hardcore fan wants. And, locals, who attend all year, often have a different outlook than the General Public. Though I'm a hardcore fan, I'm also more a member of the GP since I'm an out of state tourist. One reason I look at things from a different perspective than many on this site. I'm probably more positive than most hardcore fans on attractions, I really love them all except F&F, since I'm not getting bored by seeing the same stuff on many occasions. Though I take very long vacations to Universal & WDW, the days are all bunched together, so I'm easily entertained with the entire gamut of rides, shows, bars, restaurants etc. ...I can honestly say, even though I've been to the parks hundreds of times, I've never experienced a boring day at the parks/onsite resort hotels.
 
Frank Drackman

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  • Yesterday at 5:14 PM
  • #52
Lucky Planet said:
it's interesting because outside of universal I don't really see anyone really wearing or having any merch from jaws or back to the future. not even online, but they are huge properties that are known.
I still wonder how much merch does jaws sell
for merch. even at uni I never really saw anyone with it.
jaws is definitely iconic but how many young people have watched it, people under 30?
Click to expand...

Went to the parks recently while they have the Jaws stuff up for the summer. My wife NEEDED the water bottle thing they came out with. When I picked it up (I guess it had just restocked) the TM was like 'only one?' We got to talking and I was told I was the first person that day to only buy one.

I guess my point is that if they come up w/ something and the interwebs create the right buzz, merch will sell.

I sort of feel the same applies w/ a ride for an IP -- kids will check it out based on the ride -- how many HHN fans watch a movie because there will be a maze for the property??

If the movie itself can stand the test of time, then a ride just promotes the property, the nostalgia hits the parents and they share w/ the kids.

Anyhow, celebrating Jaws50 seems to be driving decent merch sales currently (from what I saw last week or so)
 
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Wesker69

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  • Yesterday at 5:22 PM
  • #53
JohnHammondsCane said:
I'll still complain about Hocus Pocus being overdone tho :p
Click to expand...
Excuse Me What GIF by Regal

mushu GIF
 
LPCaptainDeath

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  • Yesterday at 6:10 PM
  • #54
DrStarlander said:
Since Ghostbusters is mentioned, I'm assuming this thread is not just about Universal IPs, but nostalgic IPs they "could" use (including under license). One IP I don't recall seeing mentioned that I think would be very nostalgic and could make a fun live show or dark ride -- and maybe the best thematic queue -- would be The Goonies.

I can see something like: a queue through a Grizzly Peak-like Oregon woods to that abandoned restaurant, you're "tied" (strapped) into a chair (a KUKA arm ride vehicle) with Sloth and then the adventure begins and you careen through all the caves and past traps, etc., with the Fratellis after you, until you reach the pirate ship in the grotto which is the exit, and has interactives you can play with as you leave.
Click to expand...
I've never screamed Pirates of the Caribbean style dark ride! at my screen so fast and so loud before.
 
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Mad Dog

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  • Yesterday at 6:47 PM
  • #55
Sharks, like Dinosaurs and Dragons...have universal (Universal) appeal. A Jaws shark attraction, if done well, would be a draw. It's evergreen. Age matters not.
 
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Disneyhead

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  • Yesterday at 7:22 PM
  • #56
SeventyOne said:
Can't help but notice this thread popped up the same weekend as The Great Muppet Meltdown.

Obviously the online fan community uproar over the closing of a dated "screenz" attraction and the worst QSR pizza in Orlando was about more than the Muppets. I posit that it's Millennials realizing the great pop culture freeze they grew up in -- which started in the mid-90s, lasted until probably 2020ish -- is finally fading. People in their 30s and 40s realizing that top 40 radio won't always be Taylor, JT and I-V-VI-IV songs, that the biggest movie of the year might not always feature Marvel superheroes, fashion might finally evolve from Starbucks barista chic, and that the theme park rides they can spiel by heart won't always be there. They've been in-tune with what's "cool" they're whole lives, and suddenly the kids are shouting "Chicken Jockey!" and for the first time they don't get it and it's so dumb and for the first time they feel their age. "I was hip and with it ... but they changed what 'it' is!"

So they cling to the IPs they spent their whole lives with, most of which they inherited from Gen X anyway. The Muppets. BTTF. Ghostbusters. Jaws. But these are only nostalgia plays right now. In 10 to 15 years, they'll be even more dated -- and its likely that era's teens and 20-somethings will be clamoring for something not even on our radar at the moment.

This is the danger of single-IP-themed lands. "The American Frontier" is generic enough to evolve into what each generation needs it to be; Far Far Away will be forever tied to a 90s movie very much of its day. The Magic Kingdom of 1991 looked very different from that of 1971. Universal Studios of 2025 has exactly 1 ride in common with 2003 Theme parks need the freedom to grow and change. And becoming a nostalgia museum impedes that.
Click to expand...
As a Gen-Xer who, watched The John Denver with the Muppets Christmas Special the night it aired, and saw the MK in Dec. '71. I welcome change. I saw that, did that a hundred times already. Sorry RoA but I did TSI exactly 3 times since 1979. And the last time I walked through "the caves" I stepped in actual s#!+.

True story.
 
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DodgsonHere

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  • Yesterday at 7:58 PM
  • #57
Lucky Planet said:
it's interesting because outside of universal I don't really see anyone really wearing or having any merch from jaws or back to the future. not even online, but they are huge properties that are known.
I still wonder how much merch does jaws sell
for merch. even at uni I never really saw anyone with it.
jaws is definitely iconic but how many young people have watched it, people under 30?
Click to expand...
How often do you see people wearing merch for any movie in public lol

I take it you’re not by the beach because that shark poster design is EVERYWHERE in the summer here. Towels, shirts, tank tops, bags, stickers, you name it. It is simply ubiquitous with summer/beach culture.
 
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quinnmac000

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  • Yesterday at 8:24 PM
  • #58
I think people look at these properties as nostalgic but I see the IPs listed here as universal. The IPs before the early 2000s all benefited from being widely viewed by the general population of the US and the world. Streaming media didn't exist which helped silo people into generally watching similar content creating a knowledge base and love for certain IPs. Things like Jaws when it aired on channels that most people had in the states. Things like Back to the Future when it used to air on random Sunday/Saturday nights on NBC.
A great example for those in the USA is A Christmas Story back in the day near Christmas would run for 24 hours on TBS.

Now looking at it from a theme park lens, these IPs take people back to a simpler time. Back to a feeling that they may miss now and trying to find again. A feeling they may want to share with their family. I think the nostalgic IPs because of how accessible and how well known they are and even if you didn't watch them, you knew their relevance through culture. It really is why Universal is leaning into the ones they do have within their parks. Its also why i think even though Wicked the film is new....Oz still touches on that feeling a lot of people had and touches on a property that for Americans is very universal through the multiple renditions and variations (Wicked book/movie/musical, The Wiz (stage/film), Wizard of Oz (book/film/stage adaptation), Disney Oz films, etc)

Additionally, I think when we look at the attractions when Universal first came out, they were truly cutting edge unlike anything ever seen, so the wow factor and the inspiration when people were lot younger is missing now. They are extremely sanitized in ride experience today. Yes, there are many new attractions out there that are technologically more advanced but they miss the emotions people feel....Kongfrontation was terrifying when you think about the concept and what they were able to do back then. The original Jaws ride was crazy. Going to Disney...Alien Encounter was next level terrifying. The first set of Tower of Terror rides had the smell of burning metal and ozone and the walls sparked as you went up and down. I also think that's why Waterworld is one of the few attractions that continually survives because it meets the thrill and emotional aspects.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think @Legacy is correct in the sense that when it comes to attractions, we are trained to look at it in a very narrow sense of roller coaster, dark ride, water ride, and traditional sit down theatre show making it hard for non action based IPs to be seen as viable for a theme park. Thinking outside the book is why even IPs we couldn't dare dream seen come to life is possible.

Universal creative took a famous mystery book series in Japan and transformed it into a 2 hour immersive show/meal at USJ this year and it was amazing with really good reviews and multiple people paying out of pocket to watch (one girl i met went roughly 11 times paying the upcharge fee of 7,500 yen, she was not the only one in the room who was a repeat attendee). Additionally they took a popular anime and transformed it into a 4 level 50/60 person escape room experience that also is roughly 2 hour experience which is much much much better than anything Universal Escape did with two IPs that have the strongest potential for awesome experiences. I mean a great stateside example of outside the box thinking would be the Hill Valley actors and reenactments during Fan Fest Nights (though I think Universal could do more and done it even better, the fans were happy and that is what matters)

An attraction just truly needs to be something you can't experience anywhere else, a experience that entertains you and provides you a quality moment for a set time. I also believe this is the way to bring nostalgic IPs back to the parks in fresh ways is not through major attractions but through one of a kind experiences that will respect the legacy when they came to the parks originally.

Parkscope Joe said:
To add on to this, UDX knows more about what the GP wants than us random posters on a forum. They have market research and survey data to support their decisions, as it's a results-based business, and they want to succeed. This observation isn't meant to shut down discussion, but instead, maybe we should be looking outside the box more.
Click to expand...
This may be true but usually market research and surveys focuses heavy on what consumers want without looking into why and how they want it. An good example is surveys asking about IPs...do you want to see this fantasy IP and IPs like it come to the park....to what level would you like to see them. They typically never ask why someone why they want to see the IP and what about that IP appeals to them. It misses critical elements as well as sociological/psychological factors for certain IPs that are why certain IPs are popular which could turn a good land to an amazing land appealing even more so to non fans.
 
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Lucky Planet

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  • Yesterday at 10:10 PM
  • #59
DodgsonHere said:
How often do you see people wearing merch for any movie in public lol

I take it you’re not by the beach because that shark poster design is EVERYWHERE in the summer here. Towels, shirts, tank tops, bags, stickers, you name it. It is simply ubiquitous with summer/beach culture.
Click to expand...
movie shirts I randomly remember seeing in public from time to time:
Jurassic Park . star wars. Halloween . Godzilla. Indiana Jones . Ghostbusters . Harry Potter. transformers. Frankenstein. Lord of the rings. wizard of Oz. batman. superman. alien. pennywise. Friday the 13th.

but until the recent anniversary I don't really ever remember any jaws shirts, ever. but obviously now the cups are everywhere lol. the anniversary brought it back up. the anniversary this year obviously put merch all over the place .
 
cdogsumo

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  • Yesterday at 10:17 PM
  • #60
I think nostalgia will always be one lever of many that themed entertainment companies can pull on to keep everyone coming back to the park.

If speculation about the new lands planned for Universal GB prove true, Universal seems to be pulling on the lever harder than Disney is these days. Interesting to look at it from a positioning and/or game theory perspective.
 
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