Blackfish (The Tillikum Documentary)

[knokout1]

:look:

That site is owned and operated by SeaWorld themselves. How would it not be biased in some ways?

Because Blackfish is trying to talk about how evil Seaworld is, but only talks about ONE animal with incidents, and ignores the thousands of animals Seaworld cares for and releases, they make it sound like a big pony show where Seaworld keeps every animal they help and put it in a circus. Not the case. I can go to Seaworld and see the hurt animals there, I can take a tour of the rehabilitation center and see the animals that will be released, and I can go to the website that shows the animals they immediately help. That provides three perspectives putting together a full picture. Blackfish offers one, and not even a full one at that.

Ok... you seem quite ignorant of facts. Orcas are MAMMALS just like humans are mammals. Orcas are not fish.

You know what I meant. They give live birth, obviously I would be aware they are mammals, but Seaworld has more than killer whales, and I can't say all mammals because Seaworld doesn't have them all obviously, so I figured that would be a good representation. But instead of actually reading my post, you just picked out one thing and called me ignorant for it. It seems like every time I disagree with your opinion you either call me ignorant or too young to understand (not the case either).

 

[Kraken&Manta]

I'm not going to state my opinions on this specifically, as it's obvious and probably biased. But I will address and interesting note I've seen throughout years in conversationalists and animal rights enthusiasts.
Many species of animals have been discovered within recent years to show incredible levels of intelligence. Animals that obviously have no issues in captivity: crows, owls, pigeons, several species of fish, hogs, and many insects. To the level of even the dolphin family. Yet it's alright for them to be in captivity but not Dolphins? Public bias towards cute animals is disturbing; how is it allowed that the Critically Endangered Blue Fin Tuna is still allowed to be sold commercially, a celebrated fact (ie: Wicked Tuna), and many species that don't particularly have huge issues, but are pleasing to the eye (Manatees and Sea Turtles), are thrown around as on the verge of extinction?
By the way, If one thinks SeaWorld treats animals bad, go to any other zoo or aquarium in the World. May I suggest Miami Seaquarium?
Just my view on the whole thing...

 

[Teebin]

^ Your questions are absolutely valid ones and they do give me pause regarding other species. When I watched this movie, I was struck at how little anyone working with the animals actually knows about the animals. Reminds me of a time I asked a young employee taking notes in the gorilla area of AK. I asked how they knew if the gorillas were truly happy, flat, or just plain depressed. She said, "we don't".

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

I, for one, will still gladly go to SeaWorld every chance I get.

:thumbs:

 

[Mike]

I watched the film already having a bias in support of Seaworld, for many of the same opinions already raised on this thread. I will say that if wild Orcas were still being captured by Seaworld, or if Orcas were being cared for at Seaworld as they were in Canada or Spain, I would be very anti-Seaworld.

The documentary was good and I enjoyed it. It was an effective film. I understood its bias, and took it for what it was. It certainly helped me understand the issue better, and I will appreciate the Orcas even more now when I see them. So I would say I am better off for watching it. There are a lot of reasons I enjoy visiting Seaworld, but I have always happened to be in the minority of those who come to the park and do not consider the Orca shows as the highest on the list of must-dos. In fact they are the lowest priority for how I spend time at the park. Just not my thing.

So, having watched Blackfish, these were my conclusions:

1) While not perfect, Seaworld probably does more for Orcas in all aspects than any other zoological institution.
2) Seaworld should figure out a way to reinvent themselves, remaining relevant, so that they can slow down and eventually eliminate internal breeding. Move away from Orcas

3) This whole tragic ordeal is a perfect example of how any theme park/zoo's one bad decision can have long-lasting effects on the health of a park. This whole thing would have been avoided if they chose not to bring one Orca (Tillikum) into the fold. Their original motivation for taking on Tillikum is suggested to both be aggressively geared towards empire-building, but also towards "if not Seaworld, who will care for this animal?". Dawn and others paid for the horrors of others; Capturing Tillikum, not caring for Tillikum in Canada, etc. I hope zoos learn from this tragedy, and put far more thought into these small decisions. I am sure Seaworld management and ownership have been and remain incredulous with the past decision to take this Orca on.

I will not lose enthusiasm for Seaworld, Discovery Cove, Busch Gardens, or AZA members in general because someone made a bad decision on Tillikum that has already brought a lot of tragedy to people who are trying to do good.

 

[neoshinok]

Thank you for your thoughtful post, Mike. I have been against the captivity and breeding of Orcas for years, and I'm thankful this film has brought the issues at hand to the attention of the public.
Viewing the film for the first time yesterday, it was impactful but may have missed the mark a bit by focusing mostly on Tilikum. He is, understandably the most infamous killer whale to date, but there have been issues with many other whales. The film does display occurrences where two other SeaWorld trainers were nearly drown by two other whales. And the incident in La Lorno where a trainer was killed by a SeaWorld owned whale.
Other than the unpredictability and danger, I think the big issue is these are animals that cannot be satisfied by even the best manmade living conditions. They're highly intelligent, have strong familial and social structures and are known for covering hundreds of miles a day in their pods.
It seems so selfish to take advantage of their intelligence and willingness to cooperate by training them to feel they need to perform routines for our entertainment. I hope the breeding process is stopped and we can let the existing captive whales be the last.

 

[TylerDurden]

I just watched the movie last night with no bias...in fact not even fully knowing what it would be about. It was a very well-made documentary, possibly the best this year and was extremely affective in getting a distinct mood and urgency across.

I'm not going to talk about my views on the issue. I will say, though, that the film suffers from extreme bias. For one thing, its main interviewees were EX-SeaWorld trainers...EX. And not very many of them, meaning not a whole lot of former employees must have felt the need to speak out because for all we know the issue is blown out of proportion. I mean, look how many SeaWorld employs today; these are marine science majors who have a passion and affinity for wildlife. For some reason I don't believe these people would choose to spend their hard work and dedication loving these animals on a job that allegedly harms them.

I have one friend who used to be a trainer at SeaWorld. She knew Dawn. She was hurt by the incident. Does she boycott SeaWorld? Absolutely not. If she was interviewed for the movie she would definitely be in the pro for the park and she feels many others would to. Even Dawn herself may still believe in what SeaWorld does, it was clear she loved her job.

The best part about these misleading interviews is the sheer amount of hypocrisy behind them. One ex-trainer talks on and on about how disgusting SeaWorld is and that he'd never take his daughters there...interesting considered he worked there for a while knowing full well (better than any of us) what was going on. It screams 15 minutes of fame.

The incident with Tilikum and Dawn is devastating. So was the accident with Big Thunder in DL a few years ago. Where's the film demonizing theme park rides? Those cause a lot more accidents than this whale did. Overall, the film is great at garnering empathy from the viewers but it is unabashedly biased and offers an extremely skewed look at the process of animal captivity, conveniently ignoring all the rehabilitation and rescuing SeaWorld is actually a part of.

 

[Teebin]

Overall, the film is great at garnering empathy from the viewers but it is unabashedly biased and offers an extremely skewed look at the process of animal captivity, conveniently ignoring all the rehabilitation and rescuing SeaWorld is actually a part of.

Weeell, the film is singularly about the orcas at Seaworld, and not about their rescuing manatees and sea turtles. That is why it is called Blackfish. I am sure the makers of the film would say that Seaworld does many wonderful things, just not the keeping of orcas in captivity.

 

[TylerDurden]

Weeell, the film is singularly about the orcas at Seaworld, and not about their rescuing manatees and sea turtles. That is why it is called Blackfish. I am sure the makers of the film would say that Seaworld does many wonderful things, just not the keeping of orcas in captivity.

Yes, but the way I saw it, the orca issue was merely a focal point to condemn SeaWorld as a whole. This is how I saw it, at least. A good, balanced documentary concedes to the other point of view at least once, yet Blackfish failed to do so. As a film it's stunning, but as an argument it's lacking.

Ever take stats class in high school? Remember when they taught us to avoid extrapolation and not misuse cause and effect (for example, if ice cream is sold more in the summer according to a survey, don't assume that July is national ice cream month)? That's what I thought about when watching this movie. We don't know Tilikum, nobody here speaks orca. We don't know what the issue was and never will. For this film to damn SeaWorld and put the sole blame of a death on them is just as disgusting as SeaWorld trying to place blame for the death on the victim (for wearing her ponytail). They got some interesting footage, some great (albeit biased and one-sided) interviews, and tried to make a case against SeaWorld. But without concession to the other viewpoint, this just isn't an affective approach to making a compelling persuasive argument. Too many lurking variables are present to assume Tilikum's involvement in deaths was strictly because he is being held in captivity. For all we know, he could've done just as much damage, if not more, out in the wild on unsuspecting sailboats or something.

The point is we just don't know. Blackfish could have been much better had they presented both sides of the argument--the best documentaries don't have a bias, but instead present all facts from all sides and let the viewer make their own decision. This was very manipulative of the audience's feelings and perceptions. Look how many people have died on theme park rides in the last few years, is anyone boycotting Disney World? No, because nobody has come around to make a movie about it yet.



EDIT: Even the facts the filmmakers did present were not solid points. It claims that aggression can be passed down and implies that all of Tilikum's offspring will inherit his aggressive behavior. This is simply impossible; aggression is a learned trait in these mammals. Even if it was, the whole point of the film was to show that Tilikum (and any other wildlife for that matter) is made aggressive due to captivity, suggesting that Tilikum is not inherently aggressive but rather learned to be while in captivity--so wouldn't this mean it's not a gene he possesses? Then, using the incident with the man who snuck into the park was also ridiculous; clearly, this man had mental issues and it is not the fault of the whale that he was killed. Had he jumped in the ocean next to a pod of orcas, the same thing would've happened and using this as evidence toward the film's case is weak. Using that guy as an example is kind of like taking the murder of a robber and passing it off as proof that whoever lived in the home that was intruded upon is unstable. It's stuff like this that ruins any argument the movie has going for it. It was well-done, absolutely, but the poor choice of interviews, convenient selection of facts, and absurd misuse of cause and effect makes it a weak statement on the issue.

 

[bobwadd]

Had a long talk with Mike Boos (vice president of zoological operations) Friday night. I asked him about the fallout from the movie. He stated that the negativity is in the minority and that the research they do is an invaluable tool to continue their efforts to help all animals.

Judging by the attendance of this weekend's event the movie did not appear to hurt them at all.

 

[ynnoj]

This movie is starting to make waves (pardon the pun) over here too. Mainstream press (The Guardian) picking up the Willie Nelson cancellation and running a story.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/dec/11/blackfish-seaworld-backlash-killer-whales

 

[Macfr3ak]

I have to say.. whales have proven they are not mammals to keep confined in a tight puddle. the difference between seaworld and busch gardens is that in busch gardens the animals have massive amount of space to run and do what they like to do. IMO i say release the whales enlarge the dolphin pools and change the parks character and direction. They say seaworld is there to teach people, if there's something i've learned is that whales need to be in the open ocean which can not be replicated in anyway.

 

[Brian G.]

SeaWorld has spoken out:

SeaWorld: The Truth Is in Our Parks and People
An Open Letter from SeaWorld’s Animal Advocates

Inaccurate reports recently have generated questions about SeaWorld and the animals in our care. The truth is in our parks and people, and it’s time to set the record straight.

The men and women of SeaWorld are true animal advocates. We are the 1,500 scientists, researchers, veterinarians, trainers, marine biologists, aquarists, aviculturists, educators and conservationists who have dedicated our lives to the animals in our care as well as those in the wild that are injured, ill or orphaned. Whether it’s a sea lion, manatee, sea turtle or whale, we are on call 24/7.

Here are some important facts about SeaWorld and our work:

• SeaWorld does not capture killer whales in the wild. Due to the groundbreaking success of our research in marine mammal reproduction, we haven’t collected a killer whale from the wild in 35 years. In fact, only two of the whales in our care were collected by SeaWorld and they continue to be in our care today. In addition, our research has led to a much greater understanding of whales in the wild, giving researchers important scientific insights surrounding marine mammal reproduction.

• We do not separate killer whale moms and calves. SeaWorld recognizes the important bond between mother and calf. On the rare occasion that a mother killer whale cannot care for the calf herself, we have successfully hand raised and reintroduced the calf. Whales are only moved to maintain a healthy social structure.

• SeaWorld invests millions of dollars in the care of our killer whales. In the last three years alone, we have invested $70 million in our killer whale habitats and millions of dollars annually in support of these facilities. Our habitats are among the largest in the world today. They are state-of-the-art, multimillion-gallon environments of cooled and filtered water that allow for the highest and safest standards of care. We give our animals restaurant-quality fish, exercise, veterinary care, mental stimulation, and the company of other members of their species.

• SeaWorld’s killer whales’ life spans are equivalent with those in the wild. While studies continue to define the average life span of killer whales in the wild, the most recent science suggests that our killer whales’ life spans are comparable — indeed, five of our animals are older than 30, and one of our whales is close to 50.

• The killer whales in our care benefit those in the wild. We work with universities, governmental agencies and NGOs to increase the body of knowledge about and the understanding of killer whales — from their anatomy and reproductive biology to their auditory abilities. Some populations of wild killer whales have been classified as endangered or threatened, demonstrating the potential critical nature of these research opportunities. This type of controlled research and study is simply not possible in the wild, and has significant real-world benefits to the killer whales that live there.

• SeaWorld is a world leader in animal rescue. The millions of people who visit our parks each year make possible SeaWorld’s world-renowned work in rescue, rehabilitation and release. We are constantly innovating when it comes to this care: Our veterinarians have created nursing bottles to hand-feed orphaned whales, prosthetics to save sea turtles, and a wetsuit to help injured manatees stay afloat during rehabilitation. Whether it’s the result of natural or man-made disasters, SeaWorld is always on call and often the first to be contacted. We have rescued more than 23,000 animals with the goal of treating and returning them to the wild.

Naturalist Baba Dioum put it best when he said, “In the end we will conserve only what we love; we will love only what we understand; and we will understand only what we have been taught.”
At SeaWorld, this has been our calling since we first opened our doors 50 years ago. It is a responsibility we do not take lightly. More than 400 million guests have visited SeaWorld. We are proud that their experiences here have a lasting and positive impact on them, and on the world in which we live.

The truth about SeaWorld is right here in our parks and people. Our guests may enter our gates having never given much thought to the remarkable animals in our oceans. When they leave with a greater appreciation for the importance of the sea, educated about the animals that live there and inspired to make a difference, we have done our job.

 

[sierrak5]

I watched the film and what I got from it is that the purchase of Tilikum was a mistake and has led to some major headaches. Most of the controversial actions talked about in the film were about other parks besides SeaWorld or from over 20 years ago.

 

[Vyrus]

What I got from it was literally this:

Seaworld Bad.....Free Orcas Good.

One thing that is amazing that this documentary fails to cover as well was what happened to Keiko (Free Willy). He was introduced back into the wild thanks to public backing and outlash, and since the he was used to captivity died not too long after from pneumonia. Its hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Releasing Tillikum would NOT benefit and would only hurt him, and the message of this movie was so one sided its not even funny.

 

[knokout1]

Blackfish comes out and spews out a bunch of random information on why Seaworld is bad, and everyone goes nuts.

Seaworld releases info based on the accusations against them backed with factual evidence. People call BS.

 

[maxairmike]

Blackfish comes out and spews out a bunch of random information on why Seaworld is bad, and everyone goes nuts.

Seaworld releases info based on the accusations against them backed with factual evidence. People call BS.

But CNN showed it (thus giving it an insane amount of unearned legitimacy), and CNN has no bias or tendency to sensationalize anything! It must be true!

CNN picking this up and "backing" it gave this thing a ton more steam than it would have ever had, and is why it has stuck, if you ask me. If FOX or MSNBC picks it up, everyone would be laughing it off as a joke (especially FOX, though MSNBC is just as bad the other direction). Tons of documentaries on Netflix and other streaming services, but they're not "popular" like this probably will be, at least for a bit longer. Unless more publicity (beyond the awards circuit) happens, I'm expecting it to fade back to the level of most other documentaries by the time summer season is ready to kick in. Until then, SW just has to keep the bleeding to a minimum.

 

[Octobers Fade]

But CNN showed it (thus giving it an insane amount of unearned legitimacy), and CNN has no bias or tendency to sensationalize anything! It must be true!

CNN picking this up and "backing" it gave this thing a ton more steam than it would have ever had, and is why it has stuck, if you ask me. If FOX or MSNBC picks it up, everyone would be laughing it off as a joke (especially FOX, though MSNBC is just as bad the other direction). Tons of documentaries on Netflix and other streaming services, but they're not "popular" like this probably will be, at least for a bit longer. Unless more publicity (beyond the awards circuit) happens, I'm expecting it to fade back to the level of most other documentaries by the time summer season is ready to kick in. Until then, SW just has to keep the bleeding to a minimum.

CNN benifitted BIG TIME finacially so there is a major bias on their part.

 

[natespf]

We do not separate killer whale moms and calves. SeaWorld recognizes the important bond between mother and calf. On the rare occasion that a mother killer whale cannot care for the calf herself, we have successfully hand raised and reintroduced the calf. Whales are only moved to maintain a healthy social structure.

SeaWorld’s killer whales’ life spans are equivalent with those in the wild. While studies continue to define the average life span of killer whales in the wild, the most recent science suggests that our killer whales’ life spans are comparable — indeed, five of our animals are older than 30, and one of our whales is close to 50.

​

Thanks for reposting Bob. These two points, I am wondering if anyone has more information on.

 

[Teebin]

^ yeah, that is not how I understand things currently. I will be interested to hear the answer to this question... if an answer is out there.