Universal's Epic Universe General News & Discussion

[DOOMBOT]

For a park with capacity struggles, reducing park hours is not the solution.

Longer hours would ease the capacity struggles, as there is simply more time for an average park guest to do what they actually want to. Unfortunately, Universal doesn't directly benefit if a higher percentage of ticketed guests ride Mine Cart Madness. They only directly benefit when they can sell additional guests new tickets.

Limited capacity means limited ticket sales which means less income, means you have to start trimming costs to stay afloat.

I think @Tbad556 nailed it saying these hours help them staff for mid-shifts only. It sucks to see.

I'm also with @SeventyOne wondering what's to happen with the brand new hyped-up Fireworks Spectacular. The show is really only a few minutes long, would they still play it if it's only dusk out, or will it go seasonally offline like Cinesational?

 

[DragonSlayer]

I'm also with @SeventyOne wondering what's to happen with the brand new hyped-up Fireworks Spectacular. The show is really only a few minutes long, would they still play it if it's only dusk out, or will it go seasonally offline like Cinesational?

My guess is that it’ll go ‘select nights’ rather than seasonal. I don’t see them canning it entirely for a month or two when it’s only just started, but if the financial situation is really looking this bad then they’re not going to pay for fireworks every night either.

 

[Disneyhead]

Just a note, Epic rarely hits the attendance cap. Like, almost never.

But it is still UOR's most attended park.

 

[DOOMBOT]

Just a note, Epic rarely hits the attendance cap. Like, almost never.

But it is still UOR's most attended park.

It makes sense. There isn't an infinite supply of one-time vacationers to buy all 30k possible single-day tickets 365 days a year.

How many repeat customers could they reasonably expect with that kind of single-day ticket system?

And why would anyone choose June 2026 to visit USF or IOA? IOA is largely the same park as it was in 2021, and the cost-cut additions to USF meant to buoy it in Epic's wake are far from effective draws on their own, and even they are all over two years old now. Makes the most sense to just wait for HHN season, or for the new coasters to all be open in a few years.

 

[MAC]

It makes sense. There isn't an infinite supply of one-time vacationers to buy all 30k possible single-day tickets 365 days a year.

How many repeat customers could they reasonably expect with that kind of single-day ticket system?

And why would anyone choose June 2026 to visit USF or IOA? IOA is largely the same park as it was in 2023, and the cost-cut additions to USF meant to buoy it in Epic's wake are far from effective draws on their own, and even they are all over two years old now. Makes the most sense to just wait for HHN season, or for the new coasters to all be open in a few years.

Great. I’m going to go in early September and it’s going to be packed to the gills.

 

[Mad Dog]

It makes sense. There isn't an infinite supply of one-time vacationers to buy all 30k possible single-day tickets 365 days a year.

How many repeat customers could they reasonably expect with that kind of single-day ticket system?

And why would anyone choose June 2026 to visit USF or IOA? IOA is largely the same park as it was in 2021, and the cost-cut additions to USF meant to buoy it in Epic's wake are far from effective draws on their own, and even they are all over two years old now. Makes the most sense to just wait for HHN season, or for the new coasters to all be open in a few years.

The days of about 11 million at both USF and IOA in 2022 are in the past. The problem with Epic is that it's not very repeatable. I've been there three times now, and short of riding Monsters Unleashed about a dozen times, there's really nothing else I feel the need to experience anymore.

One thing most everyone is forgetting is that Universal Orlando had six of seven quarterly reports 'before' Epic opened where they had declining revenue. That Epic bump was pretty short lived.

As @DOOMBOT mentioned, the recent attractions added to the North Campus have been fairly minor. Besides all of these significant Orlando & National problems we've been talking about, the North Campus is badly in need of a refreshment.

Plus, I wonder how many AP's they've bled. Even Saturdays are not real busy like in the past, and that was always a heavy AP day.

 

[MAC]

The days of about 11 million at both USF and IOA in 2022 are in the past. The problem with Epic is that it's not very repeatable. I've been there three times now, and short of riding Monsters Unleashed about a dozen times, there's really nothing else I feel the need to experience anymore.

One thing most everyone is forgetting is that Universal Orlando had six of seven quarterly reports 'before' Epic opened where they had declining revenue. That Epic bump was pretty short lived.

As @DOOMBOT mentioned, the recent attractions added to the North Campus have been fairly minor. Besides all of these significant Orlando & National problems we've been talking about, the North Campus is badly in need of a refreshment.

Plus, I wonder how many AP's they've bled. Even Saturdays are not real busy like in the past, and that was always a heavy AP day.

Yeah, after this trip, I imagine it will be 5-10 years before I head back to UO after doing two trips this year. Maybe for the next HHN anniversary, if they keep making every 5 years an anniversary year. Like we've talked about, they're between a rock and a hard place. Attendance is going to naturally shrink due to declining travel. There's more and more to do in the world and discretionary income is going to be tight for the foreseeable future. So, what is the incentive for UO to build and spend? Except, if they don't...

 

[Jake S]

I've been there three times now, and short of riding Monsters Unleashed about a dozen times, there's really nothing else I feel the need to experience anymore.

This is how I felt leaving the park, too. Happy to go back when the expansions are built, but otherwise I’ve had my fill for now.

 

[DOOMBOT]

I spoke about the minimal impact of USF's recent smaller additions above - with that said, I'd like to believe that had UDX bitten the bullet and opened F&F Orlando Drift in 2024 or another major equivalent attraction to bolster its' North Campus lineup, USF would be performing better right now than it is ... unfortunately, I am uncertain it'd actually have resulted in any discernible upward bump for 2026.

@Mad Dog Do you happen to remember what impact Velocicoaster's opening had on those stats back in 2021? That was still pandemic-era, so it's a little tough to compare, but it's the last really major addition to any of the UOR parks.

 

[Mad Dog]

I spoke about the minimal impact of USF's recent smaller additions above - with that said, I'd like to believe that had UDX bitten the bullet and opened F&F Orlando Drift in 2024 or another major equivalent attraction to bolster its' North Campus lineup, USF would be performing better right now than it is ... unfortunately, I am uncertain it'd actually have resulted in any discernible upward bump for 2026.

@Mad Dog Do you happen to remember what impact Velocicoaster's opening had on those stats back in 2021? That was still pandemic-era, so it's a little tough to compare, but it's the last really major addition to any of the UOR parks.

Second half of 2021 it seemed Universal was rebounding better than Disney. I recall being at Universal in June 2021 and we rode Velocicoaster with @Disneyhead . But the parks were still a mess, especially food service. They tried to ram mobile ordering down everyone's throats and just about every quick service location had Hagrid type lines. Worst week I've ever been in any theme park resort. 2022 was a banner year for Universal. They were actually 'too crowded'. Long lines for everything. We were there in the fall of 2022 and the crowds were massive. Unfortunately, neither IOA or USF have the capacity to handle those types of crowds. If I remember correctly, it was one of the quarters in 2023 when the revenue started dropping from the previous years' quarter. Probably the second, but I'd have to find one of those threads I started.

Sooo, tough to tell whether it was Velocicoaster spurring that or just the beginning of the covid backlash. We went, even though it was summer, because we needed to get out.

I might be off a little bit on this since I'm just going by memory on dates.

 

[ThemeParks4Life]

I was doing some re-budgeting tonight for my HHN trip over Labor Day and decided to downgrade from 5 nights at Royal Pacific to 4 nights at Cabana Bay + 1 night at Portofino for Express at the end of my stay, and I may just fully commit to Cabana Bay (or Sapphire if I want to upgrade) at this point. My weekend visit from last month is honestly a major contributing factor to this, especially because I really didn't need Express aside from Velocicoaster and Hagrid (RIP). Even though crowds will tick up when HHN hits, the patterns this year haven't convinced me daytime attendance will even be on last year's level. USF is in such a shell shocked state, and with the headliners open during HHN, why should I bother paying extra at a signature hotel for the entire trip when lines have been so below average?

Being a passholder with discounted admission, I didn't even visit Epic last month due to rainy weather, but not being locked into paying for Express at the north campus parks gives me more flexibility to schedule a day for this trip. Under my new budget, I'm saving about $700 from the reservation I've had on hold since the spring, which means more money for food, alcohol, merch, a day at Epic, rideshare to Disney, and maybe even another weekend trip at the end of HHN. If I visit Orlando again post-HHN before Hollywood Drift opens, I really could see myself solely focusing on Disney if an Epic AP option isn't introduced soon.

 

[MAC]

I was doing some re-budgeting tonight for my HHN trip over Labor Day and decided to downgrade from 5 nights at Royal Pacific to 4 nights at Cabana Bay + 1 night at Portofino for Express at the end of my stay, and I may just fully commit to Cabana Bay (or Sapphire if I want to upgrade) at this point. My weekend visit from last month is honestly a major contributing factor to this, especially because I really didn't need Express aside from Velocicoaster and Hagrid (RIP). Even though crowds will tick up when HHN hits, the patterns this year haven't convinced me daytime attendance will even be on last year's level. USF is in such a shell shocked state, and with the headliners open during HHN, why should I bother paying extra at a signature hotel for the entire trip when lines have been so below average?

Being a passholder with discounted admission, I didn't even visit Epic last month due to rainy weather, but not being locked into paying for Express at the north campus parks gives me more flexibility to schedule a day for this trip. Under my new budget, I'm saving about $700 from the reservation I've had on hold since the spring, which means more money for food, alcohol, merch, a day at Epic, rideshare to Disney, and maybe even another weekend trip at the end of HHN. If I visit Orlando again post-HHN before Hollywood Drift opens, I really could see myself solely focusing on Disney if an Epic AP option isn't introduced soon.

I’m at Cabana Bay during the same period you are and while hoping to get a room at Hard Rock, I’m not willing to pay high rates because I don’t really need Unlimited Express either. My wife and I are planning on a more leisure visit to the parks and while rides are on the menu, we’ve got more than enough time to see everything. I’m hoping the softer crowds will last (Touring Plans Crowd Calendar seems to think so) and that will allow us more time and money for all the food and alcohol as you mention. Plus we’re gonna go to Disney Springs for one of the afternoons and enjoy that.

 

[OrlLover]

The days of about 11 million at both USF and IOA in 2022 are in the past

Okay dude enough doom and gloom.

I tried to be fair but you’re making a whole of assumptions based on???

One quarterly report. Looking at random hotel dates and seeing the prices. Following these wait time trackers who are sometimes flawed in their methodology.

It’s one thing to be pessimistic but you seemed convinced without a doubt that you’re correct.

They have to make some changes no doubt about it but I think it’s a little premature to be jumping the gun like this.

 

[Mad Dog]

Okay dude enough doom and gloom.

I tried to be fair but you’re making a whole of assumptions based on???

One quarterly report. Looking at random hotel dates and seeing the prices. Following these wait time trackers who are sometimes flawed in their methodology.

It’s one thing to be pessimistic but you seemed convinced without a doubt that you’re correct.

They have to make some changes no doubt about it but I think it’s a little premature to be jumping the gun like this.

Not just me, Universal's quarterly report comments were not positive. Perhaps you should listen to Robert Niles and Jakes chat on Theme Park Insider. They're essentially saying the same things I am, just about verbatim. Universal wouldn't be offering a 6 month $200 ticket if things were rosy.

Heh, I absolutely love Universal Orlando. In the past nine months I've spent over $25,000 there....and I have another vacation coming up at the end of October. I just want them to be successful, whomever is making the decisions. As I keep saying, the key will be the third quarter, since that will be the first complete opening results. I hope they do well and get their issues, not all that are their fault, resolved. Any of my comments are just tough love.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Not just me, Universal's quarterly report comments were not positive. Perhaps you should listen to Robert Niles and Jakes chat on Theme Park Insider. They're essentially saying the same things I am, just about verbatim. Universal wouldn't be offering a 6 month $200 ticket if things were rosy.

Heh, I absolutely love Universal Orlando. In the past nine months I've spent over $25,000 there....and I have another vacation coming up at the end of October. I just want them to be successful, whomever is making the decisions. As I keep saying, the key will be the third quarter, since that will be the first complete opening results. I hope they do well and get their issues, not all that are their fault, resolved. Any of my comments are just tough love.

Yeah, the language in the quarterly report was interesting. Surprisingly blunt about the state of things. Not having a spin zone readily available is definitely concerning. With that said, though, almost no company is hitting the highs of 2022. They’ll adjust, bounce back, and be back on track with a little more conservative forecasting.

 

[Skold]

...Heh, I absolutely love Universal Orlando [... ] Any of my comments are just tough love.

This is a good point that we all should keep in mind. We are all here because we are freaks who love these theme parks. I'd say that most, if not all, criticism is because we want them to do better. So that they see that adding to the parks is better for them long-term.

A few theme park boards like to label these posters as haters, even when the criticism is from a place of love.

If you follow sports, you've surely been in this spot with your team. Fire the coach! They suck! But because you love them so much, in the back of your mind you hope that this constructive criticism can help steer them in the right direction.

@Mad Dog is a little more critical than I would be, but I get the sentiment.

 

[Mad Dog]

This is a good point that we all should keep in mind. We are all here because we are freaks who love these theme parks. I'd say that most, if not all, criticism is because we want them to do better. So that they see that adding to the parks is better for them long-term.

A few theme park boards like to label these posters as haters, even when the criticism is from a place of love.

If you follow sports, you've surely been in this spot with your team. Fire the coach! They suck! But because you love them so much, in the back of your mind you hope that this constructive criticism can help steer them in the right direction.

@Mad Dog is a little more critical than I would be, but I get the sentiment.

Yeah, I'm like 90% positive on Universal, I spend a ton of money there too, but if I see something awry, I'm not going to ignore it and hope it'll go away. Like all corporations, they're not perfect, and not all Execs. are created equal. Some are good and some aren't.

 

[MAC]

Okay dude enough doom and gloom.

I tried to be fair but you’re making a whole of assumptions based on???

One quarterly report. Looking at random hotel dates and seeing the prices. Following these wait time trackers who are sometimes flawed in their methodology.

It’s one thing to be pessimistic but you seemed convinced without a doubt that you’re correct.

They have to make some changes no doubt about it but I think it’s a little premature to be jumping the gun like this.

I'd say I don't think @Mad Dog is trying to pass himself off as an expert, but simply reading the reports of not just UO, those visiting the parks, but also the economy at large and rightfully so. If I'm a stockholder in NBCUniversal, I'm rightfully concerned about the micro and macroeconomics, especially with something that requires significant outlay like a theme park and getting an ROI on any CapEx projects at a time like this. If you're spending X amount on a project, that comes with an expectation to drive additional attendance and revenue. NBCU is calling it out and while they haven't adjusted their future quarter or FY projections from what I've seen, they're concerned about it.

The working logic is sound. It's not doom and gloom, but valid concerns about what's to come and how that will impact the experience one gets from the parks as well as future offerings.

 

[Mad Dog]

I'd say I don't think @Mad Dog is trying to pass himself off as an expert, but simply reading the reports of not just UO, those visiting the parks, but also the economy at large and rightfully so. If I'm a stockholder in NBCUniversal, I'm rightfully concerned about the micro and macroeconomics, especially with something that requires significant outlay like a theme park and getting an ROI on any CapEx projects at a time like this. If you're spending X amount on a project, that comes with an expectation to drive additional attendance and revenue. NBCU is calling it out and while they haven't adjusted their future quarter or FY projections from what I've seen, they're concerned about it.

The working logic is sound. It's not doom and gloom, but valid concerns about what's to come and how that will impact the experience one gets from the parks as well as future offerings.

Exactly. I couldn't have said it any better. Thank you.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Heh, I absolutely love Universal Orlando. In the past nine months I've spent over $25,000 there....and I have another vacation coming up at the end of October.

They just need to figure out how to clone you!