Universal's Epic Universe General News & Discussion

[OhHaiInternet95]

Yes, I've been saying that for a while also. While Comcast says that spending per guest at Epic has increased and there's been an increase in vacation days, that was all expected. What definitely was not expected was this self imposed shortfall of attendance. There is no way that total expected attendance, total projected revenue, total projected Epic hotel occupancy are being met, regardless of any corporate speak we hear from the quarterly reports. Heck Terra quite often is only at 20 to 30% occupancy on non holiday weekdays.

And even with the 25,000 daily ceiling, they often struggle to get the high teens in the park, probably due to the restrictive and confusing ticket policy and having to block Epic from any AP plan.

This is clearly a bit of a mess, worse than any projection, and I'm guessing someone will have to answer for it unless it gets turned around before summer/fall. I've been following Comcast, business wise, since the early 90's. It's not in their corporate DNA to accept shortcoming results for very long.

JMO but theme parks in general should never assume they will Potter 1.0 crowd levels and be happy if they do.

 

[Mad Dog]

JMO but theme parks in general should never assume they will Potter 1.0 crowd levels and be happy if they do.

Yeah, Potter 1.0 was a one time happening, but Potter reincarnations still have legs.....I think Epic would have had fairly large crowds during this first year if they had a normal ticket selling policy. But they didn't. It was a confusing, very restrictive policy based on selling hotel packages. But, bottom line, it didn't really matter since, with the massive operational & break down issues, they couldn't have accommodated large crowds anyway. They actually ended up needing that self imposed maximum attendance ceiling.

 

[Hatetofly]

Yeah, Potter 1.0 was a one time happening, but Potter reincarnations still have legs.....I think Epic would have had fairly large crowds during this first year if they had a normal ticket selling policy. But they didn't. It was a confusing, very restrictive policy based on selling hotel packages. But, bottom line, it didn't really matter since, with the massive operational & break downs, they couldn't have accommodated large crowds anyway. They actually ended up needing that self imposed maximum attendance ceiling.

You would think that Universal would have learned from the disaster that was Universal Studios ESCAPE lol

 

[LPCaptainDeath]

As someone who has had 5 FANTASTIC days at EPIC across two different trips this last year - i just wanted to come in and say that it is still absolutely possible to have GOOD days here.

I can acknowledge that it is having a lot of issues.
I can acknowledge that a lot of people aren't enjoying themselves for a variety of reasons, not a lot of them being their inherent fault.
I can acknowledge that EPIC is FAR from perfect.
That ALL being said, i'm a pretty flexible and easy-going guy when it comes to Disney & Universal trips; I'm always where i need to go early and not just on-time, I'm good at having back-ups to my back-ups, and i'm good at rolling with the changes REO Speedwagon-style.
- I never purchased express
- I was never hit with ride delays at opening
- I was never kicked out of a line for it going down prematurely; Though i was for both shows.
- I was never there on a day where a ride was closed all day or for a majority of any given day
- I was never delayed due to weather
- I was never put on a ride that broke down or had more than half the effects down/not working correctly
- I was hit with the 'closing early' sign at Ministry on ONE of my 5 nights
- I was hit with the 'closing one hour early' sign at park entrance on ONE of my 5 nights due to a buyout
- I haven't been on everything, but i've re-rode everything i cared about multiple times

By all accounts it sounds like i've been extraordinarily lucky, but i can say that about BOTH of my trips and they were two months apart, so it's not like... a fluke that i had a good time almost every day i've been there, y'all. I'm not targeting anyone when they say that things are bad and deserve to be criticized, I'm just coming in to offer my side of the coin and say that your mileage may VERY MUCH vary. I've seen and heard people have AWFUL days at this park, but i'm also coming in to say that i haven't seen almost any side of that. I think it's probably much more likely for someone to have a worse day here due to all of the issues known and mentioned across the internet, but i also think that it's possible for people to be unprepared or overwhelmed or uninformed and have an equally bad time at ANY park in Orlando - so your mileage may ALWAYS vary at the end of the day.

So, here it is:
'Hey, i enjoyed myself a lot at Epic Universe. Don't let this forum nor the reviews you're seeing online be sole source of your expectations and set precedence for your opinion moving forward."

Credit: I am a travel agent and i have been selling Disney & Universal products for 10 years and going to the parks 1-3 times a year since i was a baby, so it's possible i'm just built different and this is all a skill issue for anyone who has had a bad time here ever /s

 

[Mad Dog]

As someone who has had 5 FANTASTIC days at EPIC across two different trips this last year - i just wanted to come in and say that it is still absolutely possible to have GOOD days here.

I can acknowledge that it is having a lot of issues.
I can acknowledge that a lot of people aren't enjoying themselves for a variety of reasons, not a lot of them being their inherent fault.
I can acknowledge that EPIC is FAR from perfect.
That ALL being said, i'm a pretty flexible and easy-going guy when it comes to Disney & Universal trips; I'm always where i need to go early and not just on-time, I'm good at having back-ups to my back-ups, and i'm good at rolling with the changes REO Speedwagon-style.
- I never purchased express
- I was never hit with ride delays at opening
- I was never kicked out of a line for it going down prematurely; Though i was for both shows.
- I was never there on a day where a ride was closed all day or for a majority of any given day
- I was never delayed due to weather
- I was never put on a ride that broke down or had more than half the effects down/not working correctly
- I was hit with the 'closing early' sign at Ministry on ONE of my 5 nights
- I was hit with the 'closing one hour early' sign at park entrance on ONE of my 5 nights due to a buyout
- I haven't been on everything, but i've re-rode everything i cared about multiple times

By all accounts it sounds like i've been extraordinarily lucky, but i can say that about BOTH of my trips and they were two months apart, so it's not like... a fluke that i had a good time almost every day i've been there, y'all. I'm not targeting anyone when they say that things are bad and deserve to be criticized, I'm just coming in to offer my side of the coin and say that your mileage may VERY MUCH vary. I've seen and heard people have AWFUL days at this park, but i'm also coming in to say that i haven't seen almost any side of that. I think it's probably much more likely for someone to have a worse day here due to all of the issues known and mentioned across the internet, but i also think that it's possible for people to be unprepared or overwhelmed or uninformed and have an equally bad time at ANY park in Orlando - so your mileage may ALWAYS vary at the end of the day.

So, here it is:
'Hey, i enjoyed myself a lot at Epic Universe. Don't let this forum nor the reviews you're seeing online be sole source of your expectations and set precedence for your opinion moving forward."

Credit: I am a travel agent and i have been selling Disney & Universal products for 10 years and going to the parks 1-3 times a year since i was a baby, so it's possible i'm just built different and this is all a skill issue for anyone who has had a bad time here ever /s

Yep, you can have a really good day if operations are running smoothly. Lots of very good reviews out there. Unfortunately, lots of really bad reviews too. As I've said often, so much depends on the luck of the draw. If most everything works well, fine. If the breakdowns would have improved better we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's remains a Jekyll Hyde park after 11 months of operation (including softs). I'm just glad they had the self imposed max attendance ceiling. I can't imagine a decent experience if there were 30,000 to 40,000 guests in the park, at this point in time operations wise.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Out of curiosity, what parks have Disney or Universal opened and met / exceeded all expectations? It seems like every park has had pitfalls in one area or more (whether that be lack of rides and/or attendance). Epic seems no different.

I agree with the sentiment that the attendance issues are at least partially self inflicted. They could easily adjust the prices and add seasonal or annual passes to get numbers up.

I'm just happy the quality is high and hoping they fix attendance through adding attractions.

Well, lets look

DAK opened fine but it was (and is) a half day park. Biggest issues were boring attractions like the River Boats.

IOA opened with one of its ride totally not working (Slyvester McQueen) and another having major issues (Spider-man). Even with the addition of Dudley they still had to fast track capacity for the park.

DCA was an unmitigated disaster of an opening with only three attractions worth admission, a historically bad dark ride and stage show, a cheaply decorated pier, and farm equipment they called an attraction. Disney started immediate emergency manuvers to fix the park.

I don't think Epic is any worse off or farther behind than any other park at opening, in fact I'd say they're doing pretty well selling day tickets and getting the attendance they're getting.

 

[RFRees]

Well, lets look

DAK opened fine but it was (and is) a half day park. Biggest issues were boring attractions like the River Boats.

Not disagreeing but just adding to your points..

AK went over budget and ended up having major attractions cut. Had it not been for those cuts, it could have had enough attractions to avoid the criticism of it being a half day park. (Epic did get hit with a least one cut but likely not on the level of AK.)

IOA opened with one of its ride totally not working (Slyvester McQueen) and another having major issues (Spider-man). Even with the addition of Dudley they still had to fast track capacity for the park.

Didn't Universal bungle the marketing campaign resulting in park attendance under performing?

I'm wondering if some of the international parks openings performed any better. I wouldn't look at the openings for Euro Disney (disaster), Disney Studios Park Paris (budget park), Hong Kong Disney (budget park), or Universal Beijing (covid)... But maybe the three parks in Japan, Universal in Singapore, or Disney in Shanghai faired better?

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Not disagreeing but just adding to your points..

AK went over budget and ended up having major attractions cut. Had it not been for those cuts, it could have had enough attractions to avoid the criticism of it being a half day park. (Epic did get hit with a least one cut but likely not on the level of AK.)

I'm specifically talking about meeting expectations that you said in your post since they built what they said they would. But I would agree that yes, lots of cutbacks to fund animal habitats caused issues.

Didn't Universal bungle the marketing campaign resulting in park attendance under performing?

Again, coming back to the "expectations" part of this and just talking about the rides themselves, not the stuff around it.

 

[Brian G.]

Disneyland’s opening day has a day named after it. Different time and they were inventing the playbook… but you get the point.

But yes, every Disney and Universal park has had some sort of blunder/issue at opening. Some more severe than others.

 

[Alicia]

Some more shocking than others

 

[Brian G.]

Some more shocking than others

 

[Hatetofly]

Well, lets look

DAK opened fine but it was (and is) a half day park. Biggest issues were boring attractions like the River Boats.

IOA opened with one of its ride totally not working (Slyvester McQueen) and another having major issues (Spider-man). Even with the addition of Dudley they still had to fast track capacity for the park.

DCA was an unmitigated disaster of an opening with only three attractions worth admission, a historically bad dark ride and stage show, a cheaply decorated pier, and farm equipment they called an attraction. Disney started immediate emergency manuvers to fix the park.

I don't think Epic is any worse off or farther behind than any other park at opening, in fact I'd say they're doing pretty well selling day tickets and getting the attendance they're getting.

Strictly from an operational perspective, do you feel Epic has done better in the first year of service than these parks mentioned? Areas like attraction up time, effects working, hourly through put, and GSATs.

 

[queenmetroid]

I think what really bothers me in particular about this thread is the apologism for a corporation that is clearly failing to deliver to a really large percentage people and they are asking full price for it. I could more easily overlook the park's issues if they weren't charging Disney money.

For example, last week a friend asked me about taking their friend to Epic Universe. They specifically mentioned that they were worried as they are from Brazil and wages are low over there. I was pretty blunt in my opinion, as I think it's unethical to tell someone who's been saving for three years to take a 50/50 shot on their vacation.

I agree that the park will be awesome in ten to twelve years. Maybe even top three in the world. But this does not excuse the state of the park right now and today, where they are asking you to pay full price. When I went, I had a less than stellar experience and I had to apologize to the four other people I took, plus I did not go the second day I had planned. I couldn't experience 25% of the park due to no fault of my own, and I'm a theme park veteran. Universal certainly didn't discount my hotel stay at Helios or theme park admission for that, and the average person may even have less of a chance than I do (or understandably less patience for issues).

I don't hate Universal. I have a Halloween Horror Nights punch card a mile long, and I spend thousands of dollars there every year, and Jack knows that's got issues. It basically takes a death march to hit everything in a night without express, but I do it because I love what Universal puts together, and I want them to be better here. If you have to bring up how Disney does (or worse, did things 50 years ago) your opinion is invalid. Just because Disney rips people off doesn't mean Universal should too, and the fact that there is a sliding scale makes me sad. That isn't the standard, nor should it be. They can do better. And they should.

The closest analogy I have right now is that Universal launched Epic Universe as a mid-2010s EA product before patches when it should have been a mid-2010s Rockstar product, and Universal is asking you to pay full price with DLC coming down the pipe that should have shipped with the game. And everyone knows you shouldn't pre-order games or beta test them at full price.

/rant

 

[OLSinFLA]

This is not an attack on you personally, but none of these situations are comparable. Disneyland was 70 years ago and essentially invented the theme park. Walt Disney World wasn't much longer after that. The others are at least three decades old. I get that opening theme parks is hard, but Universal has the benefit of running parks for more than 30 years, and plenty of modern parks to study (including one of their own, albeit in a different cultural context). Saying that "theme parks have always had issues" just unfairly glosses over that someone could legitimately (and easily) have an awful day on a once in a potentially lifetime vacation. This isn't like a movie where you can go back to your local theater; this is a top-billed destination park that people travel to and pay high prices to get into, and it was an even worse value before they added the park hopper. Normal people aren't going to know the difference between a one year old park and a ten year old park because they aren't advertised any differently, and that feels unfair that you could walk in and have a chance to never experience two rides in a park where advertising makes zero mention of that fact.

This park is completely indefensible at this point. I haven't talked much about my own personal experience with Epic Universe on this forum, but it's very far from where it needs to be, and I wish people would stop rewarding this mediocrity with their money. Unfortunately, my criticism of Universal here is as harsh as it needs to be. They need to do better.

So you think that opening a brand new park with new tech is different than opening a park with brand new tech years ago? LOL Its exactly the same situation. You're just trying to justify your view of a new park being run badly.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

I don't think the park would be in such a dire operational state if they offered less technologically advanced ride systems/experiences that are just as great as those that are. A traditional ride system, that it well known by now, would do wonder for this park.

Technology for the sake of technology is not always great.

Park is a major creative success... but some of the operational oversights are just bizarre (low-capacity experiences, indoor to outdoor experiences ratio, etc.).

 

[Brian G.]

I think what really bothers me in particular about this thread is the apologism for a corporation that is clearly failing to deliver to a really large percentage people and they are asking full price for it. I could more easily overlook the park's issues if they weren't charging Disney money.

For example, last week a friend asked me about taking their friend to Epic Universe. They specifically mentioned that they were worried as they are from Brazil and wages are low over there. I was pretty blunt in my opinion, as I think it's unethical to tell someone who's been saving for three years to take a 50/50 shot on their vacation.

I agree that the park will be awesome in ten to twelve years. Maybe even top three in the world. But this does not excuse the state of the park right now and today, where they are asking you to pay full price. When I went, I had a less than stellar experience and I had to apologize to the four other people I took, plus I did not go the second day I had planned. I couldn't experience 25% of the park due to no fault of my own, and I'm a theme park veteran. Universal certainly didn't discount my hotel stay at Helios or theme park admission for that, and the average person may even have less of a chance than I do (or understandably less patience for issues).

I don't hate Universal. I have a Halloween Horror Nights punch card a mile long, and I spend thousands of dollars there every year, and Jack knows that's got issues. It basically takes a death march to hit everything in a night without express, but I do it because I love what Universal puts together, and I want them to be better here. If you have to bring up how Disney does (or worse, did things 50 years ago) your opinion is invalid. Just because Disney rips people off doesn't mean Universal should too, and the fact that there is a sliding scale makes me sad. That isn't the standard, nor should it be. They can do better. And they should.

The closest analogy I have right now is that Universal launched Epic Universe as a mid-2010s EA product before patches when it should have been a mid-2010s Rockstar product, and Universal is asking you to pay full price with DLC coming down the pipe that should have shipped with the game. And everyone knows you shouldn't pre-order games or beta test them at full price.

/rant

I think this misinterprets the discussion lately, as this really hasn't happened. Calling that “apologism” ignores that you can criticize how it’s running now and still believe the core of the park is solid.

No one is saying “it’s fine because Disney messed up in 1955.” Bringing up history isn’t making excuses; it’s just pointing out that big parks often have rough openings. USF had major ride breakdowns right away. IOA struggled with attendance and perception. AK was seen as a half-day park early on and dealt with complaints about heat, limited rides, and capacity. DCA was heavily criticized at launch and needed a massive overhaul before it even turned 10. Disneyland Paris had serious financial and operational struggles in its early years.

All I’m saying is that just because the park is having issues in year one doesn’t mean the park is broken. That’s a different question than whether the experience right now is worth the price.

And I get the EA analogy, but theme parks aren’t patchable software; they’re live environments with thousands of moving parts, and many of the flaws only show up once actual guests are in the park and in real time. You can't just overnight a fix.

But as stated before, if you’re charging full price, guests deserve a great experience. Period.

We can think of Universal as needing to fix things fast and guests deserving a great experience, while also recognizing that big, complicated technological parks usually smooth out over time. Both things can be true.