Universal Great Britain - Speculation & Rumors

[xtpower]

It feels big to us. An American will do a 3 hour drive like it's nothing and a Brit will do a 3 hour drive like it's the worst thing to ever happen.

A 3hr drive is a pain but a 3hr train ride? Lovely, I love watching the countryside on the train.

 

[bedfordmassive]

I commute on the train from Bedford down to London - thought a few bits of info might be helpful.

Trains between London and Bedford - there are 2 main services connecting the two.

• East Midland Rail runs fast trains from St Pancras (a main London station via Luton Airport to Bedford) - the "Luton Airport Express". These take about 40 minutes and stop only twice (Luton Airport and Luton) between Bedford and London before carrying on up to Corby. They leave every half hour and have 8 carriages and are typically fairly quiet from London to Bedford in the morning (commuters go in the opposite direction). East Midlands Rail also run intercities that don't stop in Bedford, but used to. They will probably start stopping again when East-West Rail is running (see next section) - this can cut travel time from London to Bedford to just over 30 minutes. However, they stop at the main Bedford station and are unlikely to stop at the new Wixams station (which will be very close to the proposed site, see below) which will be on the slow line (used by Thameslink), but that could change I suppose.
• Thameslink run services between the South Coast, via London, up to Bedford. It's a surprisingly good service - 4-6 trains an hour, taking between 50 minutes and 1 hour 5 minutes from St Pancras depending on whether it is a stopping train or not. They all via Luton Airport. Usefully, they go ALL the way through London meaning you can join the trains up to Bedford from Farringdon (brilliant interchange with Elizabeth line which takes you to Heathrow Airport) including stops at London Bridge and Gatwick Airport. These are modern trains, up to 12 carriages long (i.e. can carry massive numbers), and again tend to carry commuters so will be emptier in the morning out of London and the in the evening into London. Thameslink trains will be the ones that stop at the new Wixhams station.

East West Rail:

• This is a new train line called "East West Rail" that replaces the old "Varsity line" which used to run between Oxford and Cambridge via Bedford. That got decommissioned last century. The connection from Oxford to Bedford will be opening in the next few years (pre Univeral GB) and will travel via Kempston Hardwick station (the one that is essentially on the proposed site). A few years later (early 2030s, the Bedford-Cambridge link will open which means tourists can do Universal, Oxford, Cambridge on a single train line - the total journey time from Oxford to Cambridge via Universal/Bedford will be less than 2 hours.

Train stations serving the proposed site:

• Kempston Hardwick: This will be a stop on the new East West Rail when it opens in the next few years. There is a consultation at the moment about station upgrades. I'd imagine Kempston Hardwick will get a sizeable upgrade.
• Wixams. This station has been stuck in development hell for a decade - it was meant to be part of the new town (stroke Beford suburb) of Wixams but central funding was pulled, and people who bought homes in Wixams on the promise of a new station felt betrayed. The previous mayor pushed it forwards last year so it is now well advanced in planning. It will probably open in 2-3 years. The location of the station is here - I can't emphasize just how close to the proposed site it is. Essentially it is separated by a thin ribbon of trees/ and a road:
  The current plans are for the station not to be accessed from the road on the Universal side of the station, i.e. it is designed to be accessed from Meadow Road on the Wixams side only (current plans). My guess is that, should Universal go ahead, they would make it accessible from Manor Road (B530) so you can directly walk into the park from the Wixams station via a bridge over B530 from the new station.

All in all, that means the proposed site is ridiculously well connected by train - could be <45 minutes from London if Thamesline laid on a St Pancras - Luton Airport - Wixams - Bedford service, less than an hour each from Oxford and Cambridge on the East West Line.

I haven't even mentioned the roads - it's dual carriageway connected (A421) to the M1 and A1 (two major north-south routes) with a new stretch of A421 opening that will connect it via Cambridge by dual carriageway all the way through to the East coast. All in all, great location transportation wise. I'd imagine they'd want a dedicated junction off the A421.

 

[bedfordmassive]

This is the current plans for Wixams station (the one connecting the proposed site to London). Note that the train lines are between the main station and the proposed site, and I see no plans for there to be access from the station to the propsed site/Manor Road (B530). The station building to the edge of the proposed development is less than 150m (like 500 foot or so for those still on Imperial units) - I'd suspect there could be a foot bridge/tunnel from the station to give access to the park for walking.

 

[Mad Dog]

It feels big to us. An American will do a 3 hour drive like it's nothing and a Brit will do a 3 hour drive like it's the worst thing to ever happen.

I recall when Mark (@UK-Trigg) and his GF stayed a week with us a few years ago. We took a day drive to Cedar Point, and back, and he said that was the longest drive of his life. Then he continued his vacation, self driving to Dollywood to meet up with Bob Waddington. He said that was uncharted territory, namely length of ride on the road. Bob drove all them back to Orlando, so that part was easy for Mark. I met back up with Mark a week later in Orlando. He was amazed at the size of the US from the perceptive of that journey. One of those things that you really need to travel by car to appreciate the size of this country. The Brits have it easy when it comes to travel within the nation.

 

[Chessy]

No that's a public road. With houses on. As I said above I expect Wixams to handle all the crowds

Yeah I just thought maybe they would have to compulsory purchase order the properties, as it would be a part of Universal’s property?

Plus I’m sure they don’t want to live right next to it lol

 

[bedfordmassive]

Yeah I just thought maybe they would have to compulsory purchase order the properties, as it would be a part of Universal’s property?

Plus I’m sure they don’t want to live right next to it lol

I doubt there will be much compulsory purchasing needed as there are very much nicer places nearby. The affected bit of Kempston Hardwick isn't the archetypal beautiful English village - it's about 20 houses and a road on the proposed site. It won't be a pitched battle on the village green planned from a tudor pub - it doesn't have either of those things.

Offers a bit above market rate will be all the incentive most would need to up sticks and move to one of proper villages nearby.

 

[bedfordmassive]

For a final bit of local flavour, here is an example of something that was recently given planning permission a mile or so up the train track from the proposed site - you can see the chimneys of Stewartby brickworks (I think) in the background. It's a massive incinerator (Rookery South). This is just to give context that the land in this area is all pretty blighted brownfield industrial and former industrial land and muddy fields. The only interesting species they'll find are mutants from all the leftover chemicals. If a monstrosity like this (albeit a very useful monstrosity) can be built, I'm moderately sure that the theme park won't be a massive issue.

I watched this thing get built from the train - looking forwards to seeing the theme park go up, though not sure if I'll get a good view (it might not be an elevated section of track by the universal site).

 

[IzzyB]

It feels big to us. An American will do a 3 hour drive like it's nothing and a Brit will do a 3 hour drive like it's the worst thing to ever happen.

True, I plan on going out to dinner this week at a place 45 minutes away one direction and that will just be in an evening after work lol

 

[Scott W.]

I recall when Mark (@UK-Trigg) and his GF stayed a week with us a few years ago. We took a day drive to Cedar Point, and back, and he said that was the longest drive of his life. Then he continued his vacation, self driving to Dollywood to meet up with Bob Waddington. He said that was uncharted territory, namely length of ride on the road. Bob drove all them back to Orlando, so that part was easy for Mark. I met back up with Mark a week later in Orlando. He was amazed at the size of the US from the perceptive of that journey. One of those things that you really need to travel by car to appreciate the size of this country. The Brits have it easy when it comes to travel within the nation.

Driving in America is so much easier compared to here. Not that driving here is difficult but when you head into a city like Edinburgh or the next town over from me is the roundabout capital of the world.

Weirdly, when I drove to Manchester in September, the hotel I stayed at the night beforeflying out had an easier route than driving to work. Leave my house, turn left, turn left, turn right, drive 200 miles, turn right.

For a final bit of local flavour, here is an example of something that was recently given planning permission a mile or so up the train track from the proposed site - you can see the chimneys of Stewartby brickworks (I think) in the background. It's a massive incinerator (Rookery South). This is just to give context that the land in this area is all pretty blighted brownfield industrial and former industrial land and muddy fields. The only interesting species they'll find are mutants from all the leftover chemicals. If a monstrosity like this (albeit a very useful monstrosity) can be built, I'm moderately sure that the theme park won't be a massive issue.

I watched this thing get built from the train - looking forwards to seeing the theme park go up, though not sure if I'll get a good view (it might not be an elevated section of track by the universal site).

What's the Tron showbuilding doing there?

 

[Mad Dog]

For a final bit of local flavour, here is an example of something that was recently given planning permission a mile or so up the train track from the proposed site - you can see the chimneys of Stewartby brickworks (I think) in the background. It's a massive incinerator (Rookery South). This is just to give context that the land in this area is all pretty blighted brownfield industrial and former industrial land and muddy fields. The only interesting species they'll find are mutants from all the leftover chemicals. If a monstrosity like this (albeit a very useful monstrosity) can be built, I'm moderately sure that the theme park won't be a massive issue.

I watched this thing get built from the train - looking forwards to seeing the theme park go up, though not sure if I'll get a good view (it might not be an elevated section of track by the universal site).

Can't be any worse aesthetics than the Universal Osaka theme park smack dab in the middle of really ugly industrial complexes (The 'real' Batuu). Bedford industrial looks medieval rural in comparison to that Japan brownfield. . ....One other BIG PLUS. When visiting England I've found the Brits to be the friendliest, most polite people I've met anywhere. That's a huge advantage over the French at Disney.....Same with the many Brits and Scots relocated to western Pa. that I've played with, and against, in soccer over the decades. Really good people.

 

[HandsomePete]

I see we’ve reached sock account levels of pushing for this thing already.

Looking forward to the 30-minute drive-in business analysis since that’s what contributes truckloads of attendance for the WDW/UO/DLP type parks that actually get past 5M a year.

 

[tommyhawkins]

This is the current plans for Wixams station (the one connecting the proposed site to London). Note that the train lines are between the main station and the proposed site, and I see no plans for there to be access from the station to the propsed site/Manor Road (B530). The station building to the edge of the proposed development is less than 150m (like 500 foot or so for those still on Imperial units) - I'd suspect there could be a foot bridge/tunnel from the station to give access to the park for walking.

I commute on the train from Bedford down to London - thought a few bits of info might be helpful.

Trains between London and Bedford - there are 2 main services connecting the two.

• East Midland Rail runs fast trains from St Pancras (a main London station via Luton Airport to Bedford) - the "Luton Airport Express". These take about 40 minutes and stop only twice (Luton Airport and Luton) between Bedford and London before carrying on up to Corby. They leave every half hour and have 8 carriages and are typically fairly quiet from London to Bedford in the morning (commuters go in the opposite direction). East Midlands Rail also run intercities that don't stop in Bedford, but used to. They will probably start stopping again when East-West Rail is running (see next section) - this can cut travel time from London to Bedford to just over 30 minutes. However, they stop at the main Bedford station and are unlikely to stop at the new Wixams station (which will be very close to the proposed site, see below) which will be on the slow line (used by Thameslink), but that could change I suppose.
• Thameslink run services between the South Coast, via London, up to Bedford. It's a surprisingly good service - 4-6 trains an hour, taking between 50 minutes and 1 hour 5 minutes from St Pancras depending on whether it is a stopping train or not. They all via Luton Airport. Usefully, they go ALL the way through London meaning you can join the trains up to Bedford from Farringdon (brilliant interchange with Elizabeth line which takes you to Heathrow Airport) including stops at London Bridge and Gatwick Airport. These are modern trains, up to 12 carriages long (i.e. can carry massive numbers), and again tend to carry commuters so will be emptier in the morning out of London and the in the evening into London. Thameslink trains will be the ones that stop at the new Wixhams station.

East West Rail:

• This is a new train line called "East West Rail" that replaces the old "Varsity line" which used to run between Oxford and Cambridge via Bedford. That got decommissioned last century. The connection from Oxford to Bedford will be opening in the next few years (pre Univeral GB) and will travel via Kempston Hardwick station (the one that is essentially on the proposed site). A few years later (early 2030s, the Bedford-Cambridge link will open which means tourists can do Universal, Oxford, Cambridge on a single train line - the total journey time from Oxford to Cambridge via Universal/Bedford will be less than 2 hours.

Train stations serving the proposed site:

• Kempston Hardwick: This will be a stop on the new East West Rail when it opens in the next few years. There is a consultation at the moment about station upgrades. I'd imagine Kempston Hardwick will get a sizeable upgrade.
• Wixams. This station has been stuck in development hell for a decade - it was meant to be part of the new town (stroke Beford suburb) of Wixams but central funding was pulled, and people who bought homes in Wixams on the promise of a new station felt betrayed. The previous mayor pushed it forwards last year so it is now well advanced in planning. It will probably open in 2-3 years. The location of the station is here - I can't emphasize just how close to the proposed site it is. Essentially it is separated by a thin ribbon of trees/ and a road:View attachment 20308
  The current plans are for the station not to be accessed from the road on the Universal side of the station, i.e. it is designed to be accessed from Meadow Road on the Wixams side only (current plans). My guess is that, should Universal go ahead, they would make it accessible from Manor Road (B530) so you can directly walk into the park from the Wixams station via a bridge over B530 from the new station.

All in all, that means the proposed site is ridiculously well connected by train - could be <45 minutes from London if Thamesline laid on a St Pancras - Luton Airport - Wixams - Bedford service, less than an hour each from Oxford and Cambridge on the East West Line.

I haven't even mentioned the roads - it's dual carriageway connected (A421) to the M1 and A1 (two major north-south routes) with a new stretch of A421 opening that will connect it via Cambridge by dual carriageway all the way through to the East coast. All in all, great location transportation wise. I'd imagine they'd want a dedicated junction off the A421.

The Wixams station is the primary option, with a likely shuttle bus to the park, as even with a footbridge that is not part of the plans it's still over a mile walk to the front entrance of the park along a B road.
Again any issues will be covered by the NSIP which incidently is what that power plant got for construction

 

[tommyhawkins]

I see we’ve reached sock account levels of pushing for this thing already.

Looking forward to the 30-minute drive-in business analysis since that’s what contributes truckloads of attendance for the WDW/UO/DLP type parks that actually get past 5M a year.

Can someone give me the TLDR of what this means

 

[xtpower]

Can someone give me the TLDR of what this means

I'll try my best.

Basically a bunch of shill accounts are pushing for the Park to happen.

He expects a bunch of crappy 'analysis' from people acting like experts, over a subject that has zero bearing on parks that actually get 5m+ attendance.

Essentially anyone pushing for UGB is a bad faith poster and we don't know crap when it comes to what will generate high attendance.

 

[bedfordmassive]

The Wixams station is the primary option, with a likely shuttle bus to the park, as even with a footbridge that is not part of the plans it's still over a mile walk to the front entrance of the park along a B road.
Again any issues will be covered by the NSIP which incidently is what that power plant got for construction

Where is the front entrance likely to be?

 

[bedfordmassive]

I see we’ve reached sock account levels of pushing for this thing already.

Looking forward to the 30-minute drive-in business analysis since that’s what contributes truckloads of attendance for the WDW/UO/DLP type parks that actually get past 5M a year.

Thanks - guessing I'm a sock! Had to look up what that means - sock puppet account, i.e a second account made by a longstanding member to agitate in favour of a particular argument.

I'm only giving details about the trains since it is the only really impressive thing about Bedford and the remarkable thing about this site. It's surprisingly well connected. Otherwise, Bedford is a bit of a down on its luck fading English market town that only avoids being the worst town in Bedfordshire by virtue of Luton also being in Bedfordshire.

My interest in theme parks extends to being excited about one potentially opening just down the road from me and providing a second reason to live in Bedford, the first being good transport links. Before Universal, that site was tagged as being an aquarium complex/aquatic version of the Eden project (The Eden Project) which I would also have been stoked about.

PS population in 30 mins drive is about 1.5m. However, for travelling from London trains are probably more relevant.

 

[BBPH]

I'll try my best.

Basically a bunch of shill accounts are pushing for the Park to happen.

He expects a bunch of crappy 'analysis' from people acting like experts, over a subject that has zero bearing on parks that actually get 5m+ attendance.

Essentially anyone pushing for UGB is a bad faith poster and we don't know crap when it comes to what will generate high attendance.

It’s worth remembering a number of people on this forum work in the industry, and are fans.

A number are fans who have incredible knowledge of the industry.

Our current ‘evidence’ is that a worldwide leader is looking at a theme park in the uk and likely is more ahead than they say they are. If we’re going to lean more towards the positive side that’s exactly why.

It feels like some of us are forgetting this isn’t a rumour anymore.

 

[Alicia]

I went back in time to create my account just to someday be excited on a forum about a U.K. theme park I’ll probably never visit. It’s true.

Or maybe new theme park news is exciting to people.

 

[xtpower]

It’s worth remembering a number of people on this forum work in the industry, and are fans.

A number are fans who have incredible knowledge of the industry.

Our current ‘evidence’ is that a worldwide leader is looking at a theme park in the uk and likely is more ahead than they say they are. If we’re going to lean more towards the positive side that’s exactly why.

It's why I started posting, especially after reading that EU construction thread. There's alot of good and knowledgeable posters and the general feel on the forum was upbeat and positive.

 

[HandsomePete]

He expects a bunch of crappy 'analysis' from people acting like experts, over a subject that has zero bearing on parks that actually get 5m+ attendance.

I’ve got some bad news for you about where about one-third of turnstile clicks at those places I mentioned comes from… and I specifically left out Disneyland because that news would be even worse.

It’s worth remembering a number of people on this forum work in the industry, and are fans.

A number are fans who have incredible knowledge of the industry.

I’ve never seen a single online discussion about sales channels, which is the engine behind any of these places making any sort of profit.