Stardust Racers Accident

[Andysol]

saw the press conference with the family’s lawyer and my interpretation was that it was meant to influence the public’s perception. The lawyer was doing lawyer things, which also felt like speculation to me.

Crump is not just a family lawyer. He’s arguably the preeminent personal injury/wrongful death attorney in the United States.

While he sensationalizes like every injury attorney would; he’s extremely effective at getting information and data from the accused party (universal in this case).

He’s obviously controversial based on the cases he has covered; but his talent is enormous and his results are relatively significant. Not just monetarily, but procedural changes as well.

What I’m saying is - this isn’t some TV injury lawyer making insane ads and yelling at the screen. It’s a highly talented attorney with national recognition and a lengthy track record of results. If there is fault at the feet of universal or the manufacturer, it will come out. And if there isn’t fault found, it won’t be due to ineffectiveness of the family’s legal team.

I’d just say everyone should just let it play out. Nothing we can conspire in our heads will be better than Crump or Universal’s legal teams.

 

[Lucky Planet]

Crump is not just a family lawyer. He’s arguably the preeminent personal injury/wrongful death attorney in the United States.

While he sensationalizes like every injury attorney would; he’s extremely effective at getting information and data from the accused party (universal in this case).

He’s obviously controversial based on the cases he has covered; but his talent is enormous and his results are relatively significant. Not just monetarily, but procedural changes as well.

What I’m saying is - this isn’t some TV injury lawyer making insane ads and yelling at the screen. It’s a highly talented attorney with national recognition and a lengthy track record of results. If there is fault at the feet of universal or the manufacturer, it will come out. And if there isn’t fault found, it won’t be due to ineffectiveness of the family’s legal team.

I’d just say everyone should just let it play out. Nothing we can conspire in our heads will be better than Crump or Universal’s legal teams.

wow, that's makes some of the accusations of the ride having faults even more difficult to see.
I'm not saying they are true, but it's difficult

 

[alomar]

I wonder if the quickly settling the other cases is because they have an NDA included. Settle quickly and they can no longer add to the fire of an already crazy news cycle for the main incident. Not as a cover up or anything of the sort, just to ccool down the rhetoric so the main case can be the focus and get the real truth out there.
The lawyer is doing exactly what a lawyer is paid to do. Just because he says something does not always mean its the truth. Some may be, some may not. His job is his clients, not Universals.

 

[Lucky Planet]

I wonder if the quickly settling the other cases is because they have an NDA included. Settle quickly and they can no longer add to the fire of an already crazy news cycle for the main incident. Not as a cover up or anything of the sort, just to ccool down the rhetoric so the main case can be the focus and get the real truth out there.
The lawyer is doing exactly what a lawyer is paid to do. Just because he says something does not always mean its the truth. Some may be, some may not. His job is his clients, not Universals.

I have no idea how complicated the situation internally is or how extensive the investigation has to be, and universal already said that the ride was working properly, and everyone wants things to go smoothly,

but the fact that it looks like it will take longer to open is making some people freak out. and come to wild conclusions. I've heard some say it won't open til next year for some reason.

 

[Evan]

I've heard some say it won't open til next year for some reason.

it’s almost October, and the investigation is likely still ongoing. And if that investigation finds issues that need to be corrected… it is indeed very possible this doesn’t reopen for a while yet. Perhaps early next year.

 

[Clive]

I have no idea how complicated the situation internally is or how extensive the investigation has to be, and universal already said that the ride was working properly, and everyone wants things to go smoothly,

but the fact that it looks like it will take longer to open is making some people freak out. and come to wild conclusions. I've heard some say it won't open til next year for some reason.

This type of unsubstantiated speculation is not helpful and will get this thread locked. You are also not helping by saying basically the same thing every few posts. @Andysol is right - we need to let this play out.

 

[Lucky Planet]

it’s almost October, and the investigation is likely still ongoing. And if that investigation finds issues that need to be corrected… it is indeed very possible this doesn’t reopen for a while yet. Perhaps early next year.

This type of unsubstantiated speculation is not helpful and will get this thread locked. You are also not helping by saying basically the same thing every few posts. @Andysol is right - we need to let this play out.

yes sorry I was just replying to alomar.
I'll only keep my posts to any new news information if I see any.

 

[tommyhawkins]

Fwiw they would have settled quickly on that other woman's shakedown case to avoid going to discovery which would impact on the litigation with Mr Zavala case and simply for the fact they had an extremely good chance of winning but would cost then significantly to defend themselves. She was after $50k. The fact it settled on days also tells me they probably offered her a very low offer maybe 15% of her asking and she immediately took it. Lawyer is probably getting most of it.

The family are entitled robust legal representation and to defend their son's character in public domain. I do hope they find a resolution.But we're probably now to assume uni/county have shared more info and video with Mr Crump, yet he seems to be wholly disingenuous wheeling out the same people he listed at the presser who had pre-existing conditions like it's some class action suit. As I might have said before there's something like 12 of these train/coaster models worldwide that see millions of riders each year without incident, so it does worry when the language is like this is the only coaster of it's kind in the world and they're exposing a major flaw, so Mack should be able to to provide evidence to counter this narrative even if we don't see it

 

[KlownzNskullZ]

We won’t find out anything for quite sometime. I won’t speculate but this seems different from other accidents. I don’t think we should really continue talking about this until more information comes out IMO.

 

[RGMick77]

Crump is not just a family lawyer. He’s arguably the preeminent personal injury/wrongful death attorney in the United States.

While he sensationalizes like every injury attorney would; he’s extremely effective at getting information and data from the accused party (universal in this case).

He’s obviously controversial based on the cases he has covered; but his talent is enormous and his results are relatively significant. Not just monetarily, but procedural changes as well.

What I’m saying is - this isn’t some TV injury lawyer making insane ads and yelling at the screen. It’s a highly talented attorney with national recognition and a lengthy track record of results. If there is fault at the feet of universal or the manufacturer, it will come out. And if there isn’t fault found, it won’t be due to ineffectiveness of the family’s legal team.

I’d just say everyone should just let it play out. Nothing we can conspire in our heads will be better than Crump or Universal’s legal teams.

Yeah…I know who he is. I was being nice when I said he was doing lawyer things.

I’ll be nice one more time.

He did a great job of advocating for the family. He was very clever with the tactics he used. He created an asset out of thin air.

 

[lowbudget]

Fwiw they would have settled quickly on that other woman's shakedown case to avoid going to discovery which would impact on the litigation with Mr Zavala case and simply for the fact they had an extremely good chance of winning but would cost then significantly to defend themselves. She was after $50k. The fact it settled on days also tells me they probably offered her a very low offer maybe 15% of her asking and she immediately took it. Lawyer is probably getting most of it.

The family are entitled robust legal representation and to defend their son's character in public domain. I do hope they find a resolution.But we're probably now to assume uni/county have shared more info and video with Mr Crump, yet he seems to be wholly disingenuous wheeling out the same people he listed at the presser who had pre-existing conditions like it's some class action suit. As I might have said before there's something like 12 of these train/coaster models worldwide that see millions of riders each year without incident, so it does worry when the language is like this is the only coaster of it's kind in the world and they're exposing a major flaw, so Mack should be able to to provide evidence to counter this narrative even if we don't see it

^This

Sounds like the other woman was after a cash grab, that's why she was asking for so little on such a high profile incident. I would have costed more than $50k for universal to get their legal team prepped and in the court room for the first appearance. All parties involved knew that, and Universal has bigger fish to fry at the moment.

And as the Family attorney sways the court of public opinion, the cost of out of court settlement goes up, should the case go that way. I hope it doesn't. I hope for transparency and that it is just a terrible freak accident and that no one is at fault.

 

[Allison]

I’ll be nice one more time.

Let’s remember somebody died, try to be nice throughout the thread.

 

[Jake S]

very thoughtful article.

When Will Stardust Racers Reopen? - Disney Tourist Blog

Stardust Racers at Epic Universe remains closed following the death of a guest that has given rise to investigations and litigation against Universal Orlando. The roller coaster currently has no reopening date on the horizon, but its closure also is not being treated as long-term, leading many...

www.disneytouristblog.com

 

[RGMick77]

very thoughtful article.

When Will Stardust Racers Reopen? - Disney Tourist Blog

Stardust Racers at Epic Universe remains closed following the death of a guest that has given rise to investigations and litigation against Universal Orlando. The roller coaster currently has no reopening date on the horizon, but its closure also is not being treated as long-term, leading many...

www.disneytouristblog.com

This article did a great job of presenting all of the available information and avoids speculation.

Until Universal, Mack Rides, Orange County, or the State of Florida release any findings from any investigations that come from this, all we have is the lawyer and the media representing one version of reality.

It’s not uncommon for amusement parks to employ their own certified inspectors (whether it’s the state’s Department of Agriculture or a the national certification program who certifies them). It makes sense when you consider they are the ones looking at these rides every single day, unlike a carnival that sets up temporarily.

On top of their daily inspection schedule, Universal most likely has their own corporate level engineers that have to work with the engineers at Mack Rides throughout the designing, building, and maintaining of the ride. Any changes made to the functionality of the ride equipment, such as restraint systems, have to be approved by the manufacturer and would require more testing.

Amusement parks in America typically don’t just make up their own safety standards, especially if they want to work with reputable ride manufacturers. There are national and international guidelines that are baked in to these ride designs. You wouldn’t want to waste money designing a ride that doesn’t meet basic ASTM Standards.

However, depending on how this lawsuit goes, standards throughout the entire industry could be forced to change. In fact, safety standards get updated quite frequently to include new considerations.

The only thing we are missing right now is actual evidence that the ride is dangerous as designed. Depending on your interpretation of reality, it could get complicated. We’re talking about machines that are designed to put you into controlled danger to give you a sense of thrill. It’s an experience that’s inherently dangerous, but not quite as dangerous for most people. That’s the reason why rides have warning signs and the parks hope you follow the rules.

One thing I can say for sure is that this was a tragedy and nobody wants to see anything like this happen again.

 

[ChrisFL]

The only thing we are missing right now is actual evidence that the ride is dangerous as designed. Depending on your interpretation of reality, it could get complicated. We’re talking about machines that are designed to put you into controlled danger to give you a sense of thrill. It’s an experience that’s inherently dangerous, but not quite as dangerous for most people. That’s the reason why rides have warning signs and the parks hope you follow the rules.

One thing I can say for sure is that this was a tragedy and nobody wants to see anything like this happen again.

Mission:Space comes to mind

 

[KlownzNskullZ]

This article did a great job of presenting all of the available information and avoids speculation.

Until Universal, Mack Rides, Orange County, or the State of Florida release any findings from any investigations that come from this, all we have is the lawyer and the media representing one version of reality.

It’s not uncommon for amusement parks to employ their own certified inspectors (whether it’s the state’s Department of Agriculture or a the national certification program who certifies them). It makes sense when you consider they are the ones looking at these rides every single day, unlike a carnival that sets up temporarily.

On top of their daily inspection schedule, Universal most likely has their own corporate level engineers that have to work with the engineers at Mack Rides throughout the designing, building, and maintaining of the ride. Any changes made to the functionality of the ride equipment, such as restraint systems, have to be approved by the manufacturer and would require more testing.

Amusement parks in America typically don’t just make up their own safety standards, especially if they want to work with reputable ride manufacturers. There are national and international guidelines that are baked in to these ride designs. You wouldn’t want to waste money designing a ride that doesn’t meet basic ASTM Standards.

However, depending on how this lawsuit goes, standards throughout the entire industry could be forced to change. In fact, safety standards get updated quite frequently to include new considerations.

The only thing we are missing right now is actual evidence that the ride is dangerous as designed. Depending on your interpretation of reality, it could get complicated. We’re talking about machines that are designed to put you into controlled danger to give you a sense of thrill. It’s an experience that’s inherently dangerous, but not quite as dangerous for most people. That’s the reason why rides have warning signs and the parks hope you follow the rules.

One thing I can say for sure is that this was a tragedy and nobody wants to see anything like this happen again.

I can verify that rides warnings and restrictions change a lot during the first year of operations

HPFJ used to have pregnancy as a warning, now it’s a restriction. Along many other things like bag size and what’s aloud on the ride.

Warnings are just alerts to the rider that if any of these apply to you, you may ride but you are being warned that you may experience some kind of side effect.

Restrictions mean you can not ride at all. I’m going to assume the restrictions list will get longer, and maybe that’s accurate to what they find out. But like I said before I think we will keep going in circles about this subject until the investigation and maybe even after the case is over and we don’t know how long that is going to take.

 

[akileese]

A question I had regarding the lawyer's statement. He refers to 'the bar in front of them', what is that a reference to? Is he referring to the lap bar? I've ridden Stardust Racers about twenty times, and I'm having trouble imagining what that's a reference to on the ride vehicle.

 

[RGMick77]

A question I had regarding the lawyer's statement. He refers to 'the bar in front of them', what is that a reference to? Is he referring to the lap bar? I've ridden Stardust Racers about twenty times, and I'm having trouble imagining what that's a reference to on the ride vehicle.

That’s a valid question. There hasn’t been much clarity on that claim. The lawyer said they were sitting in the front seat. When riding normally, I can’t imagine being close enough to make contact with much on that train, other than the seat headrest. Even then, most riders can probably brace themselves to avoid doing it repeatedly.

The lawyer mentioned the (now settled) lawsuit from Sandi Streets and said her claims of her head hitting her headrest violently were “consistent” with “blunt force trauma”.

While he connected the two incidents in that statement, it was not clear if he was actually claiming that it was the headrest’s fault or not. He also claimed that the victim in his own case was “thrown forward” due to “inadequate restraint systems”. It’s unclear what that means or how it is possible with that type of restraint system.

 

[akileese]

That’s a valid question. There hasn’t been much clarity on that claim. The lawyer said they were sitting in the front seat. When riding normally, I can’t imagine being close enough to make contact with much on that train, other than the seat headrest. Even then, most riders can probably brace themselves to avoid doing it repeatedly.

The lawyer mentioned the (now settled) lawsuit from Sandi Streets and said her claims of her head hitting her headrest violently were “consistent” with “blunt force trauma”.

While he connected the two incidents in that statement, it was not clear if he was actually claiming that it was the headrest’s fault or not. He also claimed that the victim in his own case was “thrown forward” due to “inadequate restraint systems”. It’s unclear what that means or how it is possible with that type of restraint system.

Thanks. I was just wondering if anyone else had sort of figured that out. Hadn't even caught the 'thrown forward' statement, so I'd have the same question about that. I want to be clear I'm not claiming that the intent is malicious or to mislead the public, just that as someone who has ridden this a significant amount of times, the ways he described the experience seemed to range from unlikely to impossible. I wonder if the logic used is that the restraint style being at the waist leads riders to be more likely to get thrown forward and then rubber band backwards, smacking their head on the headrest?

 

[ChrisFL]

I know this is an unpopular opinion and to be clear, MOST LIKELY NOT relevant to this case at all....but I prefer (comfortable) over the shoulder restraints for intense looping coasters. I have no idea or inkling whether that would have made a difference in this case as we still have too much info we don't know.

I'm also the type of coaster person who prefers hanging on to handles with a strong grip to letting my arms wave about, so there's that.