So Many Changes at Walt Disney World

[epcyclopedia]

I can't be the only one feeling like there's so many changes being made at WDW right now, can I?

It seems like every day some new thing is changed. Do you think there's some internal drive to shake things up or is this just coincidental? New year new budget maybe?

Part of me wants to say it's the organizational change to Proprietors over areas who now have the ability to make wholesale changes to a particular area that all lines of business under them pretty much have to abide by (many small changes in the past were shot down by feuding departments).

But, I dunno. Wasn't there an executive who said she was in charge of like the "up charge" departments, for lack of a better term? And she had like hundreds of other plans we've not even seen the tip of the iceberg of yet?

 

[Nick]

I think a lot of the things are to cover up for the fact that WDW is struggling.

Of course there's also the problems with ROL, Pandora costing $1B (with another Billion dollar land on the way in SWL), the crisis that is MM+ (from a money standpoint) and reports of Disney Springs not performing as well as expected. Hotel room occupancy is also greatly inflated at WDW as anywhere from hundreds to thousands of rooms are down at a time on average and DVC (which runs at near 100% occupancy 365 days a year) will continue to convert regular hotel rooms next year at Wilderness Lodge, just like they did when they added DVC to the Polynesian.

Adding all of the little add on experiences to make more money here and there, adding alcohol to the table service restaurants at MK.... it's all to make up for the money they are losing everywhere else in the resort.

It should also be noted that since Disney noticed that even some people were willing to pay $120 for 3 extra nighttime hours at MK (and that nighttime event has returned this January/Feb), prices for MNSSHP and MVMCP have skyrocketed and will likely continue to increase in 2017 at an abnormal rate.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

I'm surprised that Disney has yet to create an upcharge Halloween event in DHS for adults. Could definitely do well with a firework show, scare zones and 3 mazes

 

[Viator]

I'm surprised that Disney has yet to create an upcharge Halloween event in DHS for adults. Could definitely do well with a firework show, scare zones and 3 mazes

While I wouldn't say that's impossible (as there is another Disney park doing a Halloween event with actual mazes); I think it may be a problem when you consider the audience that Disney usually tries to go for. Would it be possible? Perhaps, but that is a line that I can't see Disney passing unless they are that desperate for money..

I can't be the only one feeling like there's so many changes being made at WDW right now, can I?

It seems like every day some new thing is changed. Do you think there's some internal drive to shake things up or is this just coincidental? New year new budget maybe?

Part of me wants to say it's the organizational change to Proprietors over areas who now have the ability to make wholesale changes to a particular area that all lines of business under them pretty much have to abide by (many small changes in the past were shot down by feuding departments).

But, I dunno. Wasn't there an executive who said she was in charge of like the "up charge" departments, for lack of a better term? And she had like hundreds of other plans we've not even seen the tip of the iceberg of yet?

This little bit is the thing that terrifies me more than anything else. It makes me worried of what the future may hold in the terms of availability for Disney parks; as I would be worried of what that means in long-term plans..

 

[UNIrd]

As much as some of these upcharge options tend to bother us, they really shouldn't. And seeing how I've been to Disney so many times, now I'm the kind of guest that's in the market for something different to make the trip a little more special.

Recently they've gotten me for Club Villain at $129 a pop (meh), a Candlelight Processional dining package (which I think 90% of the audience was suckered into buying), and they'll definitely get me for a beer or two at Skipper Canteen come 12/23.

It's a business. They SHOULD constantly be looking at innovative ways to generate additional revenue. Luckily, other than the price increases across the board on tickets and food, it doesn't really affect any of us unless you choose to participate.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

"It's a business" is how you talk when the company is being shopped around. Disney built its name on quality and accessibility, yes at a cost, but not like now. Up charges aren't about offering better amenities to guests, it's about additional revenue at the cost of decades of good will.

If the foundation of your business (admissions, hotels, souvenirs, food, bev) can't sustain a division then there are not enough hard ticket events, parties, etc, then there is a massive issue. And this is very close to the issue Universal Orlando faced in the mid 2000s where a hard ticket event, alcohol sales, and discounted convention business was keeping that company afloat.

List of "Additional Revenue" Created in 2016 for WDW (list includes offerings previously free, removes or reduces capacity of the park to charge people for experiences)

• General price increases (tickets, food, etc)
• Expanded F&W and F&G
• After Hours $160 then $120 event
• MK Cabanas
• DHS desert party
• Express bus
• Monorail progressive dinner
• Tiana's ice cream social/parade viewing
• Adding Art event for 2017 for Epcot

There are hushed discussions about how WDW is not sustainable at this current rate and this continues to back it up. Attendances isn't up every year. Hotel capacity is collapsing. It doesn't take that much to find this out, just look at WDWM's news posts year over year about park closings for capacity around holidays. ESPN's faults aren't helping and Disney's lucky they spent billions on Marvel and Star Wars.

 

[Scott W.]

I think a lot of the things are to cover up for the fact that WDW is struggling.

Of course there's also the problems with ROL, Pandora costing $1B (with another Billion dollar land on the way in SWL), the crisis that is MM+ (from a money standpoint) and reports of Disney Springs not performing as well as expected. Hotel room occupancy is also greatly inflated at WDW as anywhere from hundreds to thousands of rooms are down at a time on average and DVC (which runs at near 100% occupancy 365 days a year) will continue to convert regular hotel rooms next year at Wilderness Lodge, just like they did when they added DVC to the Polynesian.

Adding all of the little add on experiences to make more money here and there, adding alcohol to the table service restaurants at MK.... it's all to make up for the money they are losing everywhere else in the resort.

It should also be noted that since Disney noticed that even some people were willing to pay $120 for 3 extra nighttime hours at MK (and that nighttime event has returned this January/Feb), prices for MNSSHP and MVMCP have skyrocketed and will likely continue to increase in 2017 at an abnormal rate.

I've always thought of all this as Disney being extra greedy, not compensating for lost revenue.

 

[Nick]

I've always thought of all this as Disney being extra greedy, not compensating for lost revenue.

In some ways it is, but much of the time they introduce these things to make the numbers look better For the next quarterly report.

 

[Ashleigh]

In part I agree that there has been lots of changes; but maybe it seems like a lot more change as there are more fan outlets and communities that report on every single change. Compared to the big boom of the 90s (a time before social media, ahhh), I'm not sure we're in an era of huge change but rather the squeezing of the higher spenders and which gives a much faster return than investing and building new attractions. You only need to look at the articles online that debate restroom refurbs to confirm that we have access to way more information than we did 20 years ago - through both official and unofficial sources.

I find some Disney fan communities (not on OU) want change and growth at DW (normally in terms of E-ticket rides or to restore the 'lost magic') but not at the expense of their nostalgia and claim that Walt Disney would be rolling in his grave when Disney introduces anything new that costs money. I'm just glad they're trying to change and add some new things - even if much of the recent change and over-utilised Dessert Parties don't appeal to me as a frequent visitor and 20-something childless adult. One day soon they will announce a change that will remind me why I've invested so much time and money into Disney parks - a girl can dream...

 

[SkiBum]

"It's a business" is how you talk when the company is being shopped around. Disney built its name on quality and accessibility, yes at a cost, but not like now. Up charges aren't about offering better amenities to guests, it's about additional revenue at the cost of decades of good will.

If the foundation of your business (admissions, hotels, souvenirs, food, bev) can't sustain a division then there are not enough hard ticket events, parties, etc, then there is a massive issue. And this is very close to the issue Universal Orlando faced in the mid 2000s where a hard ticket event, alcohol sales, and discounted convention business was keeping that company afloat.

List of "Additional Revenue" Created in 2016 for WDW (list includes offerings previously free, removes or reduces capacity of the park to charge people for experiences)

• General price increases (tickets, food, etc)
• Expanded F&W and F&G
• After Hours $160 then $120 event
• MK Cabanas
• DHS desert party
• Express bus
• Monorail progressive dinner
• Tiana's ice cream social/parade viewing
• Adding Art event for 2017 for Epcot

There are hushed discussions about how WDW is not sustainable at this current rate and this continues to back it up. Attendances isn't up every year. Hotel capacity is collapsing. It doesn't take that much to find this out, just look at WDWM's news posts year over year about park closings for capacity around holidays. ESPN's faults aren't helping and Disney's lucky they spent billions on Marvel and Star Wars.

On another site, they basically made a comment that Disney fans are unrealistic because the changes are bettering the park and so on. Kind of a slur against people who don't think that they should have all of these additional charges. For your list (which is pretty darned good), what there screams "bettering the parks"? Pandora will improve AK but took forever. SWL and Toy Story expansion are nice but SWL is nowhere close to helping.

While acknowledging that I am not an insider but someone on the outside looking in, I continue to see WDW as first being arrogant (people will come no matter what we do or charge), too late to respond (don't let parks become shells), and then unable to respond efficiently. AKL cost $1.0B to build (approximately) and now they spend $1.0B on one land with two rides.

I see a lot of changes, certainly, but they aren't changes that will generate attendance increases or hotel rooms being filled. Nothing on that list makes me want to schedule a trip and, with trips already being expensive, I probably can't afford that stuff anyway.

 

[Scott W.]

In some ways it is, but much of the time they introduce these things to make the numbers look better For the next quarterly report.

It's not difficult to see why actually now that I think about it. They need to be able to control a budget.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I've always thought of all this as Disney being extra greedy, not compensating for lost revenue.

I honestly think when the cards fall people will look back and wonder in amazement what the factor was.

 

[bob albert]

Disney has had year over year of record attendance and thus incentive from investors to increase prices until the breaking point. We are probably at the breaking point. I used to advocate staying on property in the value season as a great deal. Now the limited hotel capacity has driven the value rooms scarcer at that time and they have made the free dining more limited and harder to book.

 

[UAN17]

These upcharges add probably a few million a year in revenue and P&R make Billions of profit (with various international Disney Parks Struggling at the moment), so there's definitely a lot of over exaggeration going on this thread. The idea is pretty laughable really.

 

[s8film40]

I think one of the biggest problems is most of Disney management simply just doesn't know how to run a business. Most of the people who move up through Disney are operations people who develop the highly valued skill of being friends with their boss so they can get the next promotion and continue this cycle over and over up the ladder. Disney has created a culture of change by requiring their managers to document what they changed every quarter and using this as the basis for their performance, unfortunately this change often doesn't have to be good. They often don't know why things have been done the way they have for so long, but will rely on the fact that "they're Disney, and Disney does everything best". In other words they don't think they can break Disney and if they make some small changes they get their claim to fame with no harm done. I would guess that if 90% or more of Disney management was handed over a sandwich shop for them to solely operate it would be out of business in a matter of months. I think the move to proprietors was a move to correct this, but I have a feeling most of those people merely saw this as a title change and nothing more. Every time I walk through the parks I'm astounded by the amount of waste I see. Staffing were it isn't needed, equipment that's rented for permanent uses, revenue generating facilities that are closed due to lack of staffing, a failure to use their automated systems and so much more.

These upcharges add probably a few million a year in revenue and P&R make Billions of profit (with various international Disney Parks Struggling at the moment), so there's definitely a lot of over exaggeration going on this thread. The idea is pretty laughable really.

I don't think anyone thinks that the small amounts raised by these upcharge things are going to significantly shift the business. I think it's more an indicator that someone somewhere has told them they need to make more money. As I stated above Disney just doesn't seem to know how to save money where they could so they come up with these horrible ideas probably because it's fairly easy and allows them to show they are doing something. This is probably just a tactic to hold off the inevitable, which is budget cuts.

 

[SeventyOne]

"It's a business" is how you talk when the company is being shopped around.

I know the Spirit apparently has some unfounded ridiculous grudge against you and a few others on this board--and he seems to be licking his wounds after that whole castle facade dust-up--but he presented a credible case that Disney Parks and Recreation was up for sale soon before Steve Jobs' death, but a deal could not be reached. Not sure why so hard for PixieDusters to accept that might be the case again. Theme parks and hotels are a volatile business--modern Wall St. hates volatile. The model already exists in Tokyo. And WDW is squeezing money any way it can, to make it look more attractive for sale.

 

[Mad Dog]

I know the Spirit apparently has some unfounded ridiculous grudge against you and a few others on this board--and he seems to be licking his wounds after that whole castle facade dust-up--but he presented a credible case that Disney Parks and Recreation was up for sale soon before Steve Jobs' death, but a deal could not be reached. Not sure why so hard for PixieDusters to accept that might be the case again. Theme parks and hotels are a volatile business--modern Wall St. hates volatile. The model already exists in Tokyo. And WDW is squeezing money any way it can, to make it look more attractive for sale.

I agree. The other possibility is that they are looking to spin off segments of the corporation into their own separate entities, ie. ESPN and/or Theme Parks.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Disney has had year over year of record attendance and thus incentive from investors to increase prices until the breaking point. We are probably at the breaking point. I used to advocate staying on property in the value season as a great deal. Now the limited hotel capacity has driven the value rooms scarcer at that time and they have made the free dining more limited and harder to book.

Can you honestly look at me and say that DAK and DHS are 11 million guests a year parks?

 

[SkiBum]

I don't think anyone thinks that the small amounts raised by these upcharge things are going to significantly shift the business. I think it's more an indicator that someone somewhere has told them they need to make more money.

They are after the low-hanging fruit. Probably, "Hey, let's throw this out there and see who will pay for it."

 

[Nick]

I don't think anyone thinks that the small amounts raised by these upcharge things are going to significantly shift the business. I think it's more an indicator that someone somewhere has told them they need to make more money. As I stated above Disney just doesn't seem to know how to save money where they could so they come up with these horrible ideas probably because it's fairly easy and allows them to show they are doing something. This is probably just a tactic to hold off the inevitable, which is budget cuts.

Exactly.