California Theme Parks & Shopping Districts Reopening General Thread

[Jerroddragon]

Not sure it's in this thread but I've seen it other places online. People need to save their crocodile tears over wanting the parks to open for "jobs and employees". Why we as a society have allowed jobs to define someone's worth is beyond me. What worth is a job that puts you at an elevated risk of catching such a disease as COVID. "BuT tHeY aRe ExPoSeD tO tHe FlU" says the person who has never met a strawman.

From what I've seen, the people wanting parks to open back up for the jobs or as a way to help the Disney castmember (or whatever park and their employees) have remained remarkably quiet or vocally against other things that could help the unemployed: access to affordable housing, healthcare, food, security, education, etc. These items provide a heck of a whole lot more worth than a job.

I am just bothered by people wanting parks to open that won't admit they want it open for themselves and use the guise that it is for the employees. Like just be honest.

And of course you can want both things, yes. But let's not pretend that's what's going on here.

I have since the start of this wanted more help to CMs and Local Business owners. I have said why doesn't CA just provide these people more....they can't because it's not their responsibility/states aren't suppose to go into debt. Ok Cool then the Federal Government which is either on recess until after the election or a leader who just this week said we are turning a corner so they aren't helping.
So while yes, I wish these people didn't have to risk health for a job they are not being given options.

Also local business owners who risked it all are being punished not because they ran a bad hotel or business but because of COVID but yeah they should lose it all because no one will help them?

I just want them to be able to open and fight to no lose their jobs, housing and or savings. If CA had a plan sure but they don't its "you need almost no cases" which is basically impossible without a vaccine and that is not coming to this state for a longggggg time and even then it has to be given out which takes time.
The rules used to be if you have an item and people want it you can sell it to, sorry we know you have what people want and your staff has even oked the risks but we know better than you and will also not help you out, so suffer with no plan or assistance.

Also I have no shame in saying I'd go to Universal or Disneyland with a mask, I will stand where i need to and act safely like I have this entire pandemic and ready to support my local parks.
(Edit: Also I know reopening won't save everything. Things reopened in other places and still have places that don't make it but Disneyland for sure would stimulate that local economy more than it being closed)

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

Should SeaWorld San Diego be open? It's a simple question, but one that I can't really think of a clear answer to. We all seem to be in agreement that we don't actually know how much theme parks with rides actually contribute to the spread, which means we also don't know about theme parks sans rides. SW is also small enough to where if it had a statistically higher rate of transmission, it wouldn't really show up in the state-level data, so we're basically going to never know. But, again, you're talking about a literal amusement park that will be allowed to remain open (outdoors, with modifications) at the highest purple tier in SW San Diego. Legoland is similar, since it can claim to be an aquarium. That's the dissonance that is I'm sure frustrating for the industry; I'm sure someone at Disneyland is going "wait, I'd be more than happy to close my rides and open the doors and let people watch shows and eat and walk around... but I can't because I don't have animals on display?"

See like this argument, as well as gyms being open and not a theme park, I am WITH YOU on. Like to me THIS is where the problem is here is the inconsistencies, BUT, a local gym holds several less people than a theme park, regardless of capacity restrictions. You need a membership to a gym, its a bit more specific in who they can take in/keep out, same with a restaurant again, due to sheer number of people they're working for. You're also right, no studies have been done on parks transmission because we are actually living thru the science of it!!! Id find it extremely hard to believe that ZERO of cases in Orlando have come from WDW/UOR. I hope not, I pray not, but just being realistic. The White House covers up their cases, so can WDW or UOR. Again I am NOT saying that to be the truth at all, but its another factor at play here that I don't believe can be ignored (did y'all see the MLB last night?)

Theme parks, even at limited capacity, can't control their consumers as much because it is a place that anyone from all over the US can go to, much wider and a literal larger number of people to keep track of. I think this is where people are upset frankly, and I get it, but people need to understand operating a theme park is just vasty different than the other places. And, I am not advocating for those other services to be open but I am just saying they are different operations to handle under these conditions.

This all sucks, we all want people to work, but the parks have opened in FL and that has not saved jobs so opening up does not = saved jobs. I think CA is handling this well tbh, while the situation still SUCKING at the same time. I don't get people who think there are other motives at play (politics) for not opening up a major or local theme park, CA has been relatively consistent with their handling of the virus and this doesn't seem entirely different to me personally. With all the unknowns right now, to me, its best to keep them closed while working on getting the community and world outside of Disneyland safe so Disneyland can be safe too. Its great many posters here take precautions seriously but remember, we aren't everyone.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Yeah, I'm sure more people would be let go in the Florida parks were closed. Why would they keep that many people if the 4 parks and hotels there would be closed?

Its saving jobs just not all of them but like how wearing a mask isn't 100 percent effective doesn't mean we should not try.

 

[Grabnar]

You're also right, no studies have been done on parks transmission because we are actually living thru the science of it!!! Id find it extremely hard to believe that ZERO of cases in Orlando have come from WDW/UOR. I hope not, I pray not, but just being realistic. The White House covers up their cases, so can WDW or UOR. Again I am NOT saying that to be the truth at all, but its another factor at play here that I don't believe can be ignored (did y'all see the MLB last night?)
[...]
Theme parks, even at limited capacity, can't control their consumers as much because it is a place that anyone from all over the US can go to, much wider and a literal larger number of people to keep track of.

If I had to guess this is both the major reason why CA hasn't opened (you don't want to encourage people from states who have things even less under control to visit) and why we haven't seen cases related to Disney (it's difficult to track widespread low-level transmission events over a wide period of time).

i.e. Sturgis was relatively easy to keep track of resulting spread because it was a LOT of spread over only a few days, whereas transmission at Disney would occur at a lower level over weeks to months making transmission that much more difficult to track.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

Yeah, I'm sure more people would be let go in the Florida parks were closed. Why would they keep that many people if the 4 parks and hotels there would be closed?

Its saving jobs just not all of them but like how wearing a mask isn't 100 percent effective doesn't mean we should not try.

I sorta see your point but I just don't think it works that way honestly. Im glad a politician isn't "giving it a try" when it can affect human lives because as we've seen here in America, its rare people are chosen over profits. Its a difficult balance but when there is no proof of safety in either scenario, I guess I just don't see the harm in keeping this closed as cases surge literally in almost all 50 states.

If I had to guess this is both the major reason why CA hasn't opened (you don't want to encourage people from states who have things even less under control to visit) and why we haven't seen cases related to Disney (it's difficult to track widespread low-level transmission events over a wide period of time).

i.e. Sturgis was relatively easy to keep track of resulting spread because it was a LOT of spread over only a few days, whereas transmission at Disney would occur at a lower level over weeks to months making transmission that much more difficult to track.

Yep, this is my thoughts. Id imagine a large majority of theme park goers are also grocery shopping at the very least so I doubt Universal or Disney are the sole places they are going, making it more difficult to track. Now I haven't done a contact tracing course so I dont know nor do I want to seem like I know how it works but imagine these hypotheticals:

Person A: Goes to Universal/Disney Sept 5-9, arrives home (flying) on Sept 10, on Sept 12-13 they are beginning to develop symptoms, they schedule a test 3 days later on Sept 15/16. Wait until round the 19th/20th for that test result to get back, and its positive. Who knows where else they were since they got home, who they were on a plane with, are any of them sick, etc.

Person B: Goes to Universal/Disney Sept 10-15, arrives home on the 16th while beginning to feel symptoms but do not get a test. Go out and about, 2-3 days alter they struggle breathing and go for their test comes back positive. What happened in those 2-3 days? If they're feeling symptoms on the 16th, was it had BEFORE arriving on property, or while ON property?

Person C: Asymptomatic, never feels sick, arrives home after a week at the parks, goes out and about their lives for a week or more, find out a co-worker or a friend they've seen is sick with Covid. Contact tracing doesn't begin with Person C, it begins with their friend.

Okay I'm getting anxious writing these all up BUT, I think this shows to me how complicated it would be to track from a place like this, people develop symptoms over different periods of times, constant influx of people coming/leaving, its a lot of total unknowns. I think Newsom isn't f'ing with more unknowns right now and that includes to him, opening theme parks.

 

[RevFreako]

Not sure it's in this thread but I've seen it other places online. People need to save their crocodile tears over wanting the parks to open for "jobs and employees". Why we as a society have allowed jobs to define someone's worth is beyond me. What worth is a job that puts you at an elevated risk of catching such a disease as COVID. "BuT tHeY aRe ExPoSeD tO tHe FlU" says the person who has never met a strawman.

From what I've seen, the people wanting parks to open back up for the jobs or as a way to help the Disney castmember (or whatever park and their employees) have remained remarkably quiet or vocally against other things that could help the unemployed: access to affordable housing, healthcare, food, security, education, etc. These items provide a heck of a whole lot more worth than a job.

I am just bothered by people wanting parks to open that won't admit they want it open for themselves and use the guise that it is for the employees. Like just be honest.

And of course you can want both things, yes. But let's not pretend that's what's going on here.

I couldn't have said it half as well.

 

[Jerroddragon]

I sorta see your point but I just don't think it works that way honestly. Im glad a politician isn't "giving it a try" when it can affect human lives because as we've seen here in America, its rare people are chosen over profits. Its a difficult balance but when there is no proof of safety in either scenario, I guess I just don't see the harm in keeping this closed as cases surge literally in almost all 50 states.


Yep, this is my thoughts. Id imagine a large majority of theme park goers are also grocery shopping at the very least so I doubt Universal or Disney are the sole places they are going, making it more difficult to track. Now I haven't done a contact tracing course so I dont know nor do I want to seem like I know how it works but imagine these hypotheticals:

Person A: Goes to Universal/Disney Sept 5-9, arrives home (flying) on Sept 10, on Sept 12-13 they are beginning to develop symptoms, they schedule a test 3 days later on Sept 15/16. Wait until round the 19th/20th for that test result to get back, and its positive. Who knows where else they were since they got home, who they were on a plane with, are any of them sick, etc.

Person B: Goes to Universal/Disney Sept 10-15, arrives home on the 16th while beginning to feel symptoms but do not get a test. Go out and about, 2-3 days alter they struggle breathing and go for their test comes back positive. What happened in those 2-3 days? If they're feeling symptoms on the 16th, was it had BEFORE arriving on property, or while ON property?

Person C: Asymptomatic, never feels sick, arrives home after a week at the parks, goes out and about their lives for a week or more, find out a co-worker or a friend they've seen is sick with Covid. Contact tracing doesn't begin with Person C, it begins with their friend.

Okay I'm getting anxious writing these all up BUT, I think this shows to me how complicated it would be to track from a place like this, people develop symptoms over different periods of times, constant influx of people coming/leaving, its a lot of total unknowns. I think Newsom isn't f'ing with more unknowns right now and that includes to him, opening theme parks.

You think Disney would fire the same amount if people even if they could not open 4 theme parks and hotels? That is usually not how Business is run, you have people for what you need.
If all theme parks were closed more people would be let go than what we have seen. It's just how business is, also when these people have nothing after all this (remember the plan is not until basically we have zero new cases) they will beg to differ on whether or not it was worth it to be allowed to open their business.
Once again if they were being supported then closing woul dbe fine but they are getting nothing.

 

[shiekra38]

Not sure it's in this thread but I've seen it other places online. People need to save their crocodile tears over wanting the parks to open for "jobs and employees". Why we as a society have allowed jobs to define someone's worth is beyond me. What worth is a job that puts you at an elevated risk of catching such a disease as COVID. "BuT tHeY aRe ExPoSeD tO tHe FlU" says the person who has never met a strawman.

From what I've seen, the people wanting parks to open back up for the jobs or as a way to help the Disney castmember (or whatever park and their employees) have remained remarkably quiet or vocally against other things that could help the unemployed: access to affordable housing, healthcare, food, security, education, etc. These items provide a heck of a whole lot more worth than a job.

I am just bothered by people wanting parks to open that won't admit they want it open for themselves and use the guise that it is for the employees. Like just be honest.

And of course you can want both things, yes. But let's not pretend that's what's going on here.

All these things are great discussions individually, but would take us into political territory yet again.

I will just say, people get fired/let go all the time. I just feel bad for people that are stuck in such a terrible state like California when it happens.

 

[Tristan]

You think Disney would fire the same amount if people even if they could not open 4 theme parks and hotels? That is usually not how Business is run, you have people for what you need.
If all theme parks were closed more people would be let go than what we have seen. It's just how business is, also when these people have nothing after all this (remember the plan is not until basically we have zero new cases) they will beg to differ on whether or not it was worth it to be allowed to open their business.
Once again if they were being supported then closing woul dbe fine but they are getting nothing.

Disneyland will not open up until 2021, many jobs have been lost. If Disneyland had their two parks and hotels open they would've still laid off people. Many people do not have the disposable income to go to Disneyland right now, or they might have the money, but don't want to go right now if it were open. Can we please stop with the "what-ifs" and just focus on what we know and what we can achieve. Also, we as a state don't have the money to support all these businesses, (as you suggested) and if we did smaller ones would get it first per our Governor's words. This thread is toeing the line of getting locked so I'm leaving my final response here.

 

[shiekra38]

Disneyland will not open up until 2021, many jobs have been lost. If Disneyland had their two parks and hotels open they would've still laid off people. Many people do not have the disposable income to go to Disneyland right now, or they might have the money, but don't want to go right now if it were open. Can we please stop with the "what-ifs" and just focus on what we know and what we can achieve. Also, we as a state don't have the money to support all these businesses, (as you suggested) and if we did smaller ones would get it first per our Governor's words. This thread is toeing the line of getting locked so I'm leaving my final response here.

They're fighting to open knowing they can't support themselves?

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

You think Disney would fire the same amount if people even if they could not open 4 theme parks and hotels? That is usually not how Business is run, you have people for what you need.
If all theme parks were closed more people would be let go than what we have seen. It's just how business is, also when these people have nothing after all this (remember the plan is not until basically we have zero new cases) they will beg to differ on whether or not it was worth it to be allowed to open their business.
Once again if they were being supported then closing woul dbe fine but they are getting nothing.

They’re getting nothing because their CEO and former/on the board CEO are making 40 million (idk Chapek’s cut but Iger is $47 mil), there’s money they can be allocating throughout their billion dollar corporation, California has a lot of other things to worry about than just this group.

I don’t want to go further and if I went too far mods I’m sorry but yeah I’m backing out of the thread, hope I didn’t derail it too much.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Disneyland will not open up until 2021, many jobs have been lost. If Disneyland had their two parks and hotels open they would've still laid off people. Many people do not have the disposable income to go to Disneyland right now, or they might have the money, but don't want to go right now if it were open. Can we please stop with the "what-ifs" and just focus on what we know and what we can achieve. Also, we as a state don't have the money to support all these businesses, (as you suggested) and if we did smaller ones would get it first per our Governor's words. This thread is toeing the line of getting locked so I'm leaving my final response here.

I don't think people read my words.

While yes, it won't save all jobs it will still save some. Just like a mask which can't 100 percent stop you from getting someone sick but doesn't mean we don't try.

I agree Disneyland would not be at 100% but if it opens my god for months will it be full. DTD on weekends is insane and its for SHOPPING, if they can get some rides and entertainment going you will get that think to 25% most days easy.

APs will be blocked but guess what? Many will just buy tickets because people are bored and the come knowledge is being outside with a mask is fine.
Also say I'm wrong and no one comes...well what is the harm in letting them open then if it won't be crowded?

When they let people in DCA we will see really how popular Disneyland is in this state my theory is it is going to show there is a LOT of demand still and no just for one day but weeks and months.

 

[OhHaiInternet95]

Not sure it's in this thread but I've seen it other places online. People need to save their crocodile tears over wanting the parks to open for "jobs and employees". Why we as a society have allowed jobs to define someone's worth is beyond me. What worth is a job that puts you at an elevated risk of catching such a disease as COVID. "BuT tHeY aRe ExPoSeD tO tHe FlU" says the person who has never met a strawman.

From what I've seen, the people wanting parks to open back up for the jobs or as a way to help the Disney castmember (or whatever park and their employees) have remained remarkably quiet or vocally against other things that could help the unemployed: access to affordable housing, healthcare, food, security, education, etc. These items provide a heck of a whole lot more worth than a job.

I am just bothered by people wanting parks to open that won't admit they want it open for themselves and use the guise that it is for the employees. Like just be honest.

And of course you can want both things, yes. But let's not pretend that's what's going on here.

We're so afraid of lockdowns here because of how desperately we depend on private sector jobs to provide us with our basic needs, so I COMPLETELY agree that we should have those things. But a part of me has kind of given up hope--we're not going to get those things until Americans start demanding them and vote for elected officials who run on them, instead of tarring them as socialists/communists/unelectable/whatever (good example, a 70 percent top marginal tax rate proposal, which is still BELOW what it was in the '50s, is smeared as such). The Overton Window in this country has been surging right for forty years now, and while I'd love for covid to be the turning point, I'm not holding my breath.

In addition, I feel like there has to be a move towards (not a complete return to) normal because I'm worried that the pandemic will be with us for...well, possibly forever. If there isn't noticeable improvement next year, I think the parks here and possibly the parks in Europe are done. Asia seems to have things mostly under control, so the parks there will very likely be fine.

 

[Tristan]

They're fighting to open knowing they can't support themselves?

Yes, I bet they're making a profit after making it the most barebones experience.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Yes, I bet they're making a profit after making it the most barebones experience.

A Job is a Job, now we are going to downplay what others make?

Guess all those local business closing too don't mean much, they weren't making over 50K, so who cares right?

 

[Tristan]

I'm referring to the fact that the resort would probably make a profit due to a lot of budget cuts?

 

[Jerroddragon]

I'm referring to the fact that the resort would probably make a profit due to a lot of budget cuts?

My bad.

I'm sure if Disneyland did open, they would have ways to make profits. Like yes sadly cutting most shows (not like you can let people view shows anyway)

 

[Tristan]

My bad.

I'm sure if Disneyland did open, they would have ways to make profits. Like yes sadly cutting most shows (not like you can let people view shows anyway)

It's all good my dude

 

[Allison]

I couldn't have said it half as well.

Yep, that was said much better than I did when eerily similar issues about the houses reopening were running rampant in the HHN thread.

The faux concern is getting tired, just admit you wanna be able to go to the parks again and that’s it.

 

[shiekra38]

The faux concern is getting tired, just admit you wanna be able to go to the parks again and that’s it.

I want the parks to be successful, yes