California Theme Parks & Shopping Districts Reopening General Thread

[Brian G.]

Here's the thread dedicated to Cali's reopening plans.

We'll kick off this thread with Mad Dog's last post in the old general thread:

Involved limiting visitors from outside the near vicinity (communities close to) of the parks, to open would have to meet county infection threshold numbers that are nearly impossible to meet and that only one state (little Vermont) in the nation has achieved, indoor dining either eliminated or at very low numbers, 25% occupancy, and a few others that escape me right now....plus the distancing, mask, etc. policies similar to Florida.

 

[Stryker]

Here's the postponing of the reopening guidance for CA.

 

[fryoj]

I'd say the limited vicinity deal is the part the park is pushing the hardest against. Limiting their pool and trying to enforce it at the gates are both serious problems.

 

[JawsVictim]

I don’t understand the parks‘ logic. They’re dying to reopen by any means necessary...except the terms offered. Ok? I’d happy I’ll shell out 2-3x the cost of a one day ticket to Disney or Universal at 25% capacity. Block AP passes (Allowing them to extend into post pandemic operations) and offer 1Day premium priced reservations.

 

[Mad Dog]

I don’t understand the parks‘ logic. They’re dying to reopen by any means necessary...except the terms offered. Ok? I’d happy I’ll shell out 2-3x the cost of a one day ticket to Disney or Universal at 25% capacity. Block AP passes (Allowing them to extend into post pandemic operations) and offer 1Day premium priced reservations.

Part of the problem is that the rumored parameters of the infection rates being met in their county are basically not achievable under the present covid circumstances. So they really can't even open at this, or a near future, point in time. Only Vermont has reached the rumored standard. And that's a mostly rural state with a very small population.

 

[Tristan]

Beggars can't be choosers during these times. They should've just accepted the guidelines, and then modify it slowly as the parks kept operating. Obviously you can not make a profit off of those proposed guidelines, but can the Unions force them to accept the guidelines?

 

[Jerroddragon]

I don’t understand the parks‘ logic. They’re dying to reopen by any means necessary...except the terms offered. Ok? I’d happy I’ll shell out 2-3x the cost of a one day ticket to Disney or Universal at 25% capacity. Block AP passes (Allowing them to extend into post pandemic operations) and offer 1Day premium priced reservations.

That was what I thought first...but then I saw the guildlines for them opening by county and it would be very hard to open this year with that mandate.

The other stuff sucks but they can work with it but if they still can't open this year whats the point? Also as Freshbaked pointed out there is no where to go past it basically they allow you to open when its basically no cases with 25% but what about moving up to 50% nothing about that.

 

[Rideguy70]

Beggars can't be choosers during these times. They should've just accepted the guidelines, and then modify it slowly as the parks kept operating. Obviously you can not make a profit off of those proposed guidelines, but can the Unions force them to accept the guidelines?

I don’t understand the parks‘ logic. They’re dying to reopen by any means necessary...except the terms offered. Ok? I’d happy I’ll shell out 2-3x the cost of a one day ticket to Disney or Universal at 25% capacity. Block AP passes (Allowing them to extend into post pandemic operations) and offer 1Day premium priced reservations.

Those original guidelines were essentially not obtainable for months, maybe even a year. It's not just the limited capcity in the park. It's the tier level required before opening at all. The Yellow tier, which was the proposed tier for parks to reopen, says that there can't be more than 1 new infection in 100,000 a day... oh, and it'd have to stay that way or less for 3 weeks, or else forget it. If 2 people in 100,000 get infected in the same day, back to Orange tier for you, which means another 3 more weeks of waiting to open. You can probably see why this is difficult to achieve in current times.

Let's put it this way... if these standards had been the guidelines for Florida, none of those parks would've ever opened in the first place. They'd still be sitting with empty theme parks, just like we still are.

I consider myself pretty covid-cautious (I still wouldn't feel safe flying, and am never without a mask in public), but even I feel that an Orange tier, combined with lowered capacity and other park precautions (already modeled in Florida), ought to be enough. And Orange tier is going to be hard enough... no county in Southern California has it yet, although as I understand it, the OC may be getting somewhat close to that. LA County is still in Purple (the highest tier), so it's going to be a while for Universal and SFMM to be back open, even if the guidelines do go down to Orange.

Oh, and Brian G., thanks for splitting the thread! As a west coast guy, I must admit I'm more focused on happenings out here, and it was hard to get west coast news with all that is happening in Florida.

 

[Tristan]

[/QUOTE]

Those original guidelines were essentially not obtainable for months, maybe even a year. It's not just the limited capcity in the park. It's the tier level required before opening at all. The Yellow tier, which was the proposed tier for parks to reopen, says that there can't be more than 1 new infection in 100,000 a day... oh, and it'd have to stay that way or less for 3 weeks, or else forget it. If 2 people in 100,000 get infected in the same day, back to Orange tier for you, which means another 3 more weeks of waiting to open. You can probably see why this is difficult to achieve in current times.

Let's put it this way... if these standards had been the guidelines for Florida, none of those parks would've ever opened in the first place. They'd still be sitting with empty theme parks, just like we still are.

I consider myself pretty covid-cautious (I still wouldn't feel safe flying, and am never without a mask in public), but even I feel that an Orange tier, combined with lowered capacity and other park precautions (already modeled in Florida), ought to be enough. And Orange tier is going to be hard enough... no county in Southern California has it yet, although as I understand it, the OC may be getting somewhat close to that. LA County is still in Purple (the highest tier), so it's going to be a while for Universal and SFMM to be back open, even if the guidelines do go down to Orange.

Oh, and Brian G., thanks for splitting the thread! As a west coast guy, I must admit I'm more focused on happenings out here, and it was hard to get west coast news with all that is happening in Florida.

Oh wow I was misinformed on this topic. Yellow tier does seem unreasonable to achieve at all. Thanks for the info, and no wonder they refused lol.

 

[Freak]

Hmmmm....Bob Iger has stepped down from Newsom’s task force.

Hmmmm....there parks wanting the guidelines delayed because they’re too restrictive.

Two words: Class Action. That will get the administration’s attention.

 

[Legacy]

Hmmmm....Bob Iger has stepped down from Newsom’s task force.

Hmmmm....there parks wanting the guidelines delayed because they’re too restrictive.

Two words: Class Action. That will get the administration’s attention.

I actually don’t think the Newsom administration would be that shook. There are a few reasons.

First, a class action requires multiple entities to see. In this situation, it would be theme parks and similar entities. Disney could easily take the lead for other entities to sign on. But who is signing on? Universal could. But would Knott’s? They’ve figured out how to open under the COVID protocols. Would seasonal parks sign on? They’re year is over. Would aquariums, mini-golf, go-karts, etc? They’re opening already too. The power of a class action is the amount of entities represented in the claim. This one, could actually be pretty weak.

Two, back to Knott’s. Assuming a suit makes it to trial, all the state has to do is point at Knott’s and say, “They figured it out.” Depending on the eloquence of the state’s argument, anything Disney presents could come across as petulant.

Three, what is the actual sticking point here? The rumor that the “region-locking” is what’s stuck in Disney’s craw means the state actually has all the constitutional leverage. The state is actually responsible for the management of commerce across cross state lines, and have the authority to restrict non-essential movement into and through the state. It’s a constitutional authority. Precedent means the state should unequivocally win that point, and appeals could move all the way up the Supreme Court-which would take years past this pandemic.

Disney would also run into challenges with the uniform nature of the state’s guidance (which isn’t an obviously targeted application; it’s pretty objective), their choice to pay their executives before laying off their force, and the fact they’re sitting in the most infected county in the state.

Disney could absolutely file it without much sacrifice. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the state says, “Bring it.”

 

[Jerroddragon]

I actually don’t think the Newsom administration would be that shook. There are a few reasons.

First, a class action requires multiple entities to see. In this situation, it would be theme parks and similar entities. Disney could easily take the lead for other entities to sign on. But who is signing on? Universal could. But would Knott’s? They’ve figured out how to open under the COVID protocols. Would seasonal parks sign on? They’re year is over. Would aquariums, mini-golf, go-karts, etc? They’re opening already too. The power of a class action is the amount of entities represented in the claim. This one, could actually be pretty weak.

Two, back to Knott’s. Assuming a suit makes it to trial, all the state has to do is point at Knott’s and say, “They figured it out.” Depending on the eloquence of the state’s argument, anything Disney presents could come across as petulant.

Three, what is the actual sticking point here? The rumor that the “region-locking” is what’s stuck in Disney’s craw means the state actually has all the constitutional leverage. The state is actually responsible for the management of commerce across cross state lines, and have the authority to restrict non-essential movement into and through the state. It’s a constitutional authority. Precedent means the state should unequivocally win that point, and appeals could move all the way up the Supreme Court-which would take years past this pandemic.

Disney would also run into challenges with the uniform nature of the state’s guidance (which isn’t an obviously targeted application; it’s pretty objective), their choice to pay their executives before laying off their force, and the fact they’re sitting in the most infected county in the state.

Disney could absolutely file it without much sacrifice. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the state says, “Bring it.”

What I don't get is are the rides really that big of a deal? Like my god you let Knotts have people come in and there are a few places where you go inside...so whats the deal?

I do wish Disney would just make a food event (think they could have so many fun themes) but also confused on why the government thinks Big Thunder is going to spread Covid but not people in the theme park?

 

[awhen]

What I don't get is are the rides really that big of a deal? Like my god you let Knotts have people come in and there are a few places where you go inside...so whats the deal?

I do wish Disney would just make a food event (think they could have so many fun themes) but also confused on why the government thinks Big Thunder is going to spread Covid but not people in the theme park?

For Disneyland, it’s probably not rides but queues. Those old school attractions (Mr. Toad, etc) have almost no queue space aside from some amazingly narrow chain switchbacks.

 

[Magic Feather]

I actually don’t think the Newsom administration would be that shook. There are a few reasons.

First, a class action requires multiple entities to see. In this situation, it would be theme parks and similar entities. Disney could easily take the lead for other entities to sign on. But who is signing on? Universal could. But would Knott’s? They’ve figured out how to open under the COVID protocols. Would seasonal parks sign on? They’re year is over. Would aquariums, mini-golf, go-karts, etc? They’re opening already too. The power of a class action is the amount of entities represented in the claim. This one, could actually be pretty weak.

Two, back to Knott’s. Assuming a suit makes it to trial, all the state has to do is point at Knott’s and say, “They figured it out.” Depending on the eloquence of the state’s argument, anything Disney presents could come across as petulant.

Three, what is the actual sticking point here? The rumor that the “region-locking” is what’s stuck in Disney’s craw means the state actually has all the constitutional leverage. The state is actually responsible for the management of commerce across cross state lines, and have the authority to restrict non-essential movement into and through the state. It’s a constitutional authority. Precedent means the state should unequivocally win that point, and appeals could move all the way up the Supreme Court-which would take years past this pandemic.

Disney would also run into challenges with the uniform nature of the state’s guidance (which isn’t an obviously targeted application; it’s pretty objective), their choice to pay their executives before laying off their force, and the fact they’re sitting in the most infected county in the state.

Disney could absolutely file it without much sacrifice. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the state says, “Bring it.”

Cedar Fair and Six Flags would gladly jump onto a suit with Disney, Universal, Merlin, and SWPE. If anything Knott's, Legoland, and SeaWorld's modified operations are proof as to why the parks should be allowed to open, and that the only reason that they havent is because Newsom won't give them guidelines along the same lines as similar businesses. Entirely indoor malls and museums are bigger risks than Disneyland with capacity limits and a crapton of safety measures.

 

[Jerroddragon]

For Disneyland, it’s probably not rides but queues. Those old school attractions (Mr. Toad, etc) have almost no queue space aside from some amazingly narrow chain switchbacks.

And Maybe Disney isn't ready (and if you aren't on you for havign 6 months and not preparing) but can't with 30% of people most rides have Virtual Qs?

I know for like Universal that could be harder because of space but Disneyland has room for 30% filled up and not everyone in the same area

 

[Rideguy70]

Something that's often forgotten is the safety of the operators. With one of the main concerns being indoors for extended periods of time, it may not be as much of an issue for guests if they make accommodations and hold queues mostly outdoors (much like Indiana Jones does). But those ride ops are stuck indoors for a much longer period of time, which complicates things.

It's similar to schools reopening... most are focused on the student side of things, but it's even tougher for the teachers who often have to stay longer than the students do--even worse for middle/high school teachers, who see multiple classes a day.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Something that's often forgotten is the safety of the operators. With one of the main concerns being indoors for extended periods of time, it may not be as much of an issue for guests if they make accommodations and hold queues mostly outdoors (much like Indiana Jones does). But those ride ops are stuck indoors for a much longer period of time, which complicates things.

It's similar to schools reopening... most are focused on the student side of things, but it's even tougher for the teachers who often have to stay longer than the students do--even worse for middle/high school teachers, who see multiple classes a day.

I assumed they'd just put glass in front of all the Operators stations like at the Grocery stores

I also wonder if Disney could operate all rides outdoors and go from there.
I know many would say no one would come...well go to DTD and see Disney fans are nuts and are begging for anything Disney

 

[Magic Feather]

I don’t know if the official numbers have been made public yet, but DLR Attractions took a really big hit. I don’t know WDW’s numbers for attractions, but I think DL might be higher.

 

[Scott W.]

Orange County California Health Agency Recommends Reopening Disneyland in "Moderate" Tier, Earlier Than Draft Guidelines from State

Walt Disney World news, photos, and reviews! We provide you with daily news from the Walt Disney World theme parks and beyond

blogmickey.com

 

[Tristan]

this is big right?

Orange County California Health Agency Recommends Reopening Disneyland in "Moderate" Tier, Earlier Than Draft Guidelines from State

Walt Disney World news, photos, and reviews! We provide you with daily news from the Walt Disney World theme parks and beyond

blogmickey.com